Thunder guard Alex Caruso explains Cason Wallace’s Allstate hands celebration
Thunder guard Alex Caruso talks about Cason Wallace’s Allstate hands celebration ahead of Tuesday’s game at the Clippers. The team is still working on a nickname to go with it, if anyone has ideas.
The Oklahoman’s Justin Martinez and Joe Mussatto break down the Oklahoma City Thunder’s recent performances, player development, and what fans should watch as the team continues its strong start to the season in this week’s episode of Thunder Buddies.
With the Thunder navigating injuries to key players like Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren, Martinez and Mussatto share their insight into how Ajay Mitchell and Aaron Wiggins are stepping up and evolving as versatile teammates, and what fans can expect in upcoming matchups.
Here’s what Thunder fans need to know to stay ahead of the game.
Watch full OKC Thunder Buddies video podcast
OKC Thunder Buddies video podcast transcript
Following is the transcript of this week’s Thunder Buddies podcast, edited for clarity:
Ajay Mitchell making strides amid Thunder injuries
Martinez: We’re here in Sacramento for the third game of the road trip for OKC — three of four. OKC is now 8-1 on the season. They started the road trip with a 126–107 win over the LA Clippers, improving to 8-0, setting a franchise record for best start to a season. Then last night they fell short in a 121–119 loss to the Portland Trail Blazers.
Joe, I figured today we can talk about what’s been a big topic of discussion — is this OKC team better? Obviously, they’re short-handed, but do they have the blueprint to be better than last year’s squad, which won a championship? And also, where’s some room for improvement? Because, as they say all the time, the theme is always trying to improve. So if that sounds good to you, we can jump right into it.
Mussatto: Yeah. Where do you want to start, Justin?
Martinez: I guess starting off with the actual player development before maybe looking big picture at the team. Are there any guys who you’ve seen who have really started to make strides individually?
Mussatto: I mean, Ajay Mitchell keeps balling out. It was striking watching that Portland game last night because Shai was clearly gassed, and the Thunder were just running ISO through Ajay Mitchell for key stretches in clutch time. It’s like — what am I even watching? And I don’t mean that as a negative thing about Ajay Mitchell, but just what they’ve entrusted him with — with J-Dub out — to be a primary guy. Not just a playmaker, but a play creator for himself, using his finesse around the rim, his strength, his finishing ability. His individual improvement has stood out more than anyone else’s on this team, and I think there are other guys we could talk about, but you have to start with Ajay.
Martinez: Yeah, I agree. Going into the season, we talked a lot about Chet Holmgren — everyone was expecting a jump from him — but Ajay Mitchell’s a guy who showed flashes before his injury last season and has really run with the opportunity this year. You’ve seen what he’s done running that second unit, but like you mentioned last night, I thought it was a good example of how he’s able to play alongside another top option like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.
He was going in isolation against Toumani Camara, an All-Defensive Second Team forward. That’s a lot of trust they’re placing in Ajay, and he delivered multiple times. He had 21 points, four boards, and three assists in his first start of the season — second of his career. OKC was short-handed, so he got the start, and yeah, it just seems like whether he’s with the second unit, the first unit, closing games, not closing games — he’s very adaptable to whatever this team needs.
Mussatto: When we look back at the beginning of the season — obviously it stinks that J-Dub is out — but I’m not sure we see this version of Ajay Mitchell otherwise. He has so much responsibility, and so much of the Thunder’s process is experimenting, playing guys big minutes in unexpected situations. Their hands have almost been forced with Mitchell, and I think he’d be getting big minutes anyway.
But we’ve talked a lot about what it would look like for J-Dub next to another ball handler in Ajay. Instead, we’re seeing what Ajay looks like as maybe the primary offensive threat on the floor. And if Dub’s out there, I’m not sure we see that happening. Same goes for Aaron Wiggins, who continues to spread his wings offensively. He’s not going to have the ball in his hands as much as Mitchell. He’s more of a play finisher, but made some huge threes last night and was running the floor in transition. He’s not a finalized version of himself yet. We saw a huge step in scoring last year from Aaron Wiggins, and he’s upped that this year.
Aaron Wiggins, Isaiah Joe, Jaylin Williams becoming ‘system monsters’
Martinez: Yeah, I think that’s a perfect transition, because that’s what I was going to bring up next — another one of those guys who’s really taking advantage of opportunities. He’s made more starts this season and has looked comfortable in that role. He always seems to be comfortable when it comes to scoring — last night was no different. But he’s also improved as a playmaker. He’s had a couple nice plays in that two-man game with Isaiah Hartenstein. They’ve had a few lobs, a couple nice passes down low to him.
Defensively, that’s a big thing — he’s a bit of an in-betweener. Sometimes he’s asked to guard the four, but he’s been able to have an impact. Last night he had three steals and a block. He’s able to hold his own in that department, which is impressive on a team filled with great defenders. And offensively, whenever he’s asked to score, he’s always ready. Seven-for-ten shooting from deep last night for him.
So yeah, he’s another one of those guys Mark (Daignault) talked about the other day. He calls them “system monsters.” He says Aaron Wiggins is one of those guys, Isaiah Joe is one, J-Will as well — just players who can do whatever is needed within the system on any given night.
Mussatto: I’d like to be a system monster. One thing that stands out about Wiggins to me — and we’re dealing with small samples, but it’s all we have — last season he attempted four and a half threes per game. That was up from 1.6 the year before. His career high before that was his rookie year — 2.8 on a tanking team. So, four and a half last year; this year, he’s at 6.7. Obviously, that jumped after last night, but I love seeing him hunt that shot.
He’s not the movement shooter that Isaiah Joe is, but he’s a reliable knockdown shooter so far — shooting 42% from three on almost seven attempts per game. That’s something I never thought we’d see from Aaron Wiggins.
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander continuing to grow
Martinez: For sure. And speaking of, one thing we did kind of see coming was Shai Gilgeous-Alexander continuing to play at a high level. But I think we’ve even seen marginal improvements in his game as well. He’s just getting better at finding his spots. He’s shooting a career-high true shooting percentage — 63.8%. Also a career-high 57.2% from inside the arc.
We saw it last night, second night of a back-to-back. He got off to a slow start — didn’t make a shot in the first quarter — and the way he got going was by getting to his spot along the baseline early in the second quarter. He had a couple buckets there and ended up finishing with 35 points. Another strong performance offensively. It starts with getting to those spots, getting to the free throw line — which he’s doing at a higher rate this season, 9.9 attempts per game compared to 8.8 last year.
Those little things make him even more dangerous. You’re not going to see a big jump after winning MVP and a scoring title, but we’re still seeing continued growth from a guy who’s only 27 years old.
Mussatto: Yeah, his numbers look very similar to his MVP season last year. Field goal percentage — 52% this year and last. He’s shooting two percentage points lower from three. Free throw percentage, 89%, same as last year. Rebounds — 5.4, slightly up. Assists about the same. Steals are down, but that could be small sample size. Last year was an outlier in that category.
He’s always going to be good in the stocks category, so it’s kind of same old, same old from Shai — which we get numb to, but it’s still outstanding.
Martinez: Also, I shortchanged him earlier — I said 31 points last night, it was 35. He’s now had 81 straight regular-season games of 20-plus points, which is third all time in the NBA — only behind Wilt Chamberlain, who did it twice with longer streaks.
Cason Wallace’s defensive impact, fun personality
Martinez: I think another guy making strides is Cason Wallace. He continues to get better at getting into passing lanes — he’s leading the league in steals right now at 2.8 per game. We’ve seen the “All State hands” celebration gaining some momentum. What do you think about that celebration, Joe?
Mussatto: I like it. The guys are clearly having fun with it. You drew my attention to it — I hadn’t noticed before, but I was watching for it last night and saw it. Caruso especially, on the bench, gets a big kick out of it.
Martinez: Yeah, apparently they were doing a bit of it last season too. At media day, there’s a photo of Cason, Caruso, J-Dub, and maybe Lu Dort — all doing that hand gesture in a photo. So it’s been a thing they’ve been trying to get going. They’re still working on a nickname — we’ve heard maybe “Wall State,” which I think is a good one. Our guy Brandon came up with that.
But yeah, he’s just another guy who — Mark talked about it — you look at the big three, they get a lot of attention, but Cason Wallace came into the league and hit the ground running. He’s continuing to improve, and defensively, especially getting into passing lanes, that’s where you see his impact.
Who’s somebody else you think is making strides?
Mussatto: Let’s see. Wallace is definitely one. From what little we’ve seen of Chet, I’ve been encouraged. I had my All-NBA prediction for him — I think that’ll come down to games played. If he gets there, he’s probably on one of those teams.
Isaiah Joe wasn’t great from three last night — three of ten — but he’s been such a breath of fresh air for a team that’s struggled to shoot. He’s picking up right where he left off. I haven’t seen improvement necessarily, but Isaiah Hartenstein is a guy we don’t talk about much, yet he’s so steady every night. Basically good for 10 and 10 with a handful of assists. Always making the right play.
He had the highlight last night — you mentioned it — Aaron Wiggins throwing the lefty lob to Hartenstein, who finished it with one hand. He’s just a really good player. Not the most exciting guy — still can’t make a three, probably never will — but he’s steady and deserves a mention.
Martinez: Yeah, maybe just more comfortable in his role now. Obviously another year of experience playing alongside Chet — that takes some adjusting, working with another seven-footer. So yeah, he deserves a lot of credit. There have been so many injuries on this team, and he’s been one of the sources of consistency. He and Shai are the only starters who’ve started every game.
Like I said, he’s going to rebound, playmake, and score efficiently around the rim. Definitely another guy who deserves credit.
OKC Thunder has room for improvement
Martinez: Where do you see room for improvement for the team as a whole? What areas could they continue to get better in?
Mussatto: The one area I thought would be impossible to improve is defensively last year. Again, we’re dealing with small samples. Last year, they had historic defense, but it blows my mind that with Chet missing half the games and J-Dub out, this team is number one in defensive rating. They’re even better than last year — 106.6 points allowed per 100 possessions last year, 105.6 this year. That’s four points better per 100 possessions than the second-best defense, which is Victor Wembanyama and the Spurs.
It makes no sense given the personnel they’ve had out. It also makes perfect sense when you see the guard rotation, and Hartenstein is still in there. I don’t think this defense can match last year because that’s a lot of intensity to maintain over 82 games. But they’re bought in on that end after winning a championship. Even if you have a letdown or a game where they mail it in defensively, you probably give them a pass, but we just haven’t seen that yet.
Martinez: Yeah, really. The only time the defense slipped was in the fourth quarter of the last game, but you can kind of give them a pass there because it was the second night of a back-to-back. Portland ended up scoring 40 points to complete that comeback. Other than that, this is a team that continues to not take its foot off the gas. They pride themselves on defense.
On the other side of the ball, the big area for improvement is three-point shooting. But they are trending in the right direction. Part of that is Isaiah Joe coming in, adding floor spacing and gravity. He’s really helped. Looking at OKC’s first five games when Joe was sidelined with a knee contusion, OKC was shooting 28.8% from deep, ranked 29th in the league. In the four games with Isaiah Joe, they’re shooting 39.9% — eighth in the NBA. Not entirely because of him, but as they add shooters, you’ll see that percentage continue to climb.
Eventually, J-Dub will come back. He’s another guy who can shoot the three-ball. Kenrich Williams as well. So there’s definitely room for improvement, but they are starting to make progress in that department.
Mussatto: Yeah, and you mentioned the splits with and without Joe. It all averages out to 20th in the league now in three-point percentage, which isn’t great. But we were talking about them at the bottom just a few games ago, so you can make up a lot of ground in these areas in the first couple weeks of the season.
For context, the Rockets are leading the NBA at 42.7% from three. That could have given a lot of guesses about who would be leading at this point. The poor Indiana Pacers are dead last at 30.9%. But I’m not worried about Thunder three-point shooting. I really only worry about it in the postseason, because shot quality goes down. Some guys shy away from it, and you don’t see them as effective. So I’m not judging it until the playoffs.
Offensively, the team has been fine. The Thunder is sixth in offensive rating. Houston’s one, Philly two, Denver three, New York four, LA Lakers five, Thunder six. First in defense, sixth in offense — a pretty good formula.
Martinez: And looking individually at some guys, you see room for growth. J-Will is shooting 26.8% — a good floor spacer throughout his short career. Lu Dort shooting 19.4%, but he’s been a 40% shooter in past seasons, so not a huge concern. The team is 8-1, reigning champs, and we’re trying to find ways for them to improve.
Another thing, if you’re nitpicking, is pace of play for OKC. Last season, fifth in the NBA in pace at 100.9. This season, 22nd at 99.7. They’ve played slower teams which have managed to dictate the pace more — Houston ranks 28, Clippers 29, New Orleans 24th. That has played a factor. Facing bigger teams with oversized lineups slows things down too.
As they pick up the pace, it leads to easier points — you’re not facing set defenses as much. That’s another area where they could and should continue to improve.
Mussatto: That’s one I had written down as well. And it’s not an original thought. Maybe you’ve seen or written the same thing, but another factor in pace numbers is the double-overtime games at the beginning of the season. Naturally, you can’t play as fast in back-to-back double overtimes — that accounts for about 10 minutes. But ideally, this is a team that wants to play fast. With Dub back in the lineup, that should naturally lead to more transition opportunities.
Martinez: For sure. Is there anywhere else you see room for improvement?
Mussatto: Those are the main areas for the team. If they improve too much more, it could be bad news for the rest of the league. I was watching that game last night, and I thought — if the Thunder finds a way to win, when are they going to lose? It’s supposed to be a schedule loss. But they fought back, which shows the world isn’t upside down — things are happening as they should.
Martinez: That game at Portland was impressive. The young Trail Blazers made some crazy shots —Jrue Holiday — but it was still a big win for a team trying to turn the corner.
Mussatto: Yeah, for sure. Another obvious thing we haven’t mentioned is health. That’s a big factor outside their control. There’s a chance they’ll get some guys back for the upcoming game against Sacramento tomorrow at 9 p.m. Central. Chet Holmgren missed the last game with a lower back sprain. Lu Dort missed with a right upper trap strain against the Clippers. Alex Caruso was resting. They’re supposed to get some of those people back, plus J-Dub and Kenrich Williams. That will make them more dangerous once healthy.
Next up for OKC is the game against Sacramento, the first game of NBA Cup group play. I’m interested to see the court — they’ve toned it down for the NBA Cup courts, which I’m glad to see.
Mussatto: Yeah.
Martinez: Not sure how you feel about that, Joe.
Mussatto: It was a little much for me, just shoving the cup down our throat. Not my favorite thing. But kudos to the NBA for trying new things. Covering the Thunder is hard, and the team just won the championship — so what if they win the NBA Cup? Maybe we’re already spoiled. But I don’t know, the Cup’s fine. Thunder probably has the easiest group in the NBA.