On the eve of his induction into the Chicago Bulls Ring of Honor, Horace Grant is set to debut his own TV series, featuring conversations with former teammates and friends such as Scottie Pippen, Charles Oakley, Gary Payton, and others. The series will include 13 episodes, each featuring the 17-year veteran sitting down with one guest to discuss their upbringing, pivotal career moments, and more.
Grant was portrayed less favorably than he expected in The Last Dance, but he emphasizes that this new project isn’t an attempt to reshape his image from the documentary. In a wide-ranging interview with HoopsHype, the four-time champion talked about whether he had any regrets leaving Chicago after the three-peat, the fractured relationship between Michael Jordan and Pippen, the rise of Shaquille O’Neal, his thoughts on his nephews like Jerami Grant, and much more.
Can you talk about how your documentary, Legends in Session with Horace Grant, came together?
Horace Grant: We’re going to talk about the 80s, 90s, and the 2000s basketball. We’re going to talk about my journey, the journey of my guests, from grade school, high school, college, to get to the point of being professionals in their sport. So, it’s going to be transparent. It’s going to be heartfelting. I can’t wait.
It’s been in development for almost a year now. My partners asked me, and I did some research, and we just came together to say, “We don’t want a podcast. We want like a TV series. We want to give the fans something really to watch, something really to talk about, and respond to.
Did your portrayal on The Last Dance have anything to do with you making your own doc?
HG: No, not at all. You know I’ve been on the sidelines for a long period of time now, and I felt that I have something to talk about, something to tell. The Last Dance had nothing at all, believe me, I’m being very transparent to just tell my story in terms of how I grew up, my journey to being a professional basketball player, and my guests… they’re going to do the same.
What was it like for you after leaving the Bulls right after the first three-peat, when you went to Orlando? Was that something that you were looking forward to, or was it something that just kind of happened with the nature of the business in the NBA?
HG: Well, it was business. I remember sitting down with – still my best friend to this day, we talk almost every week -Scottie Pippen. It was one of the toughest decisions I ever made in my life to leave such a culture, team, friends, fans. But, you know, in any business, it’s going to be a business decision.
When the Bulls were going through their second three-peat, did you have regrets that you weren’t part of it?
HG: [Chuckles] Of course, when they win a championship, you want to be there. But, you know, fortunately, I had the great opportunity to play with a young Shaq in Orlando, a Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, Brian Shaw, and many others.
We got to the Finals my first year there. And I felt that if we could have kept the team together, who knows? And, of course, playing with the late great Kobe Bryant and Shaq and Robert Horry, all the guys, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, out there in LA and helping win a championship. If I had known that the Bulls were going to win three championships, maybe I would have taken a pay cut. [Laughs]
With you being involved in that first three-peat with Chicago, and then going to Orlando, did you realize how tough it was to win a championship?
HG: Well, winning that first one, it was difficult. repeating was difficult. And that third one, going against Phoenix was unbelievable. And that’s something I carried on to Orlando, explaining to a young Shaq and Penny that it’s going to be tough. It’s going to be tough. I mean, we made it to the Finals, but we understood what it takes to get back to the Finals. And unfortunately, we didn’t. And the team kind of went their separate ways.
You were a key part of the Magic team that beat the Bulls in ’95. How satisfying was that moment?
HG: It was great to be on a team that accomplished something that a lot of teams never accomplished – beating the Bulls in a playoff series. Doing it to MJ and Pip made it a little more special. [Laughs]
You played with Shaq when he was very, very young in Orlando, and then again out in LA. How much did he mature over that time?
HG: Well, he was a young, funny, outgoing personality in Orlando, which I love. But that Shaq with the Lakers, that dude was focused – not saying that he wasn’t focused in Orlando – but, man, he wanted to leave a legacy behind as one of the greatest basketball players, the most dominant basketball player ever played the game. And I think he made his mark. It was just such a joy, man.
Would you say there’s no other big out there that comes even close to how good Shaq was from what you’ve seen up close?
HG: Oh, gosh. Dominant? No. Skill-wise, you have to look at the Joker [Nikola Jokic] today. You have to look at a healthy [Joel] Embiid today. Other than that, man, no. Nothing like the big fella.
Kobe modeled a lot of his game after Jordan. Having played with both, what similarities and differences can you see between the two?
HG: The similarities are the work ethic, killer Instinct, and love of the game. No differences.
Wearing your signature googles when you played, did that mean anything to you when you played?
HG: Well, I was legally blind, so I had to wear the goggles, but I think it was just a signature for Horace Grant, kind of established himself with his own identity.
I guess in some way I made the goggles cool – no disrespect to Kareem or James Worthy or even Hakeem Olajuwon -but you know, I guess I had those futuristic-looking alien goggles that made it cool.
Were you ever reluctant to wear them when you played?
HG: No, not at all. I wasn’t hesitant because in order for me to see what I see out there on the court, I didn’t realize I was legally blind until I put on the goggles, the prescription goggles. And I’m like, oh, wow, that’s what the basketball goal looked like. That’s what the hoop looked like. That’s what the ball looked like. And I could see fans in the stand without squeaking. So it was a necessity.
It’s pretty well documented now that Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen don’t really have a relationship anymore. I know you and Scottie are still pretty close, but what are your thoughts on that?
HG: Oh, man, I think and I hope and pray that they both come to such a moment that they can both sit down and talk this thing out. Now you have two great, great players, great teammates. I don’t want to say beefing because you know when you 60 and older, we don’t have that much time, so I would say to MJ and Pip, I pray and hope that you guys can settle this silliness.
Who would you say – outside of Scottie – was your closest teammate there in those years when you played in Chicago?
HG: Wow, that’s such a great question. Other than Pip, I would have to say… It’s so many on that Bulls team. If I had to boil it down to one, I would say Stacey King.
And I say Stacey King because, you know, when you’re on the Bulls team, you lose one game, you’re kind of looking around like what the heck is going on? And you lose two. It’s like, okay, we got to go back to the drawing board and everybody gets on edge. And then you have Stacey King come in and crack jokes and just lining the place up so I would say Stacy King.
You will be honored by the Chicago Bulls in their second Ring of Honor class. It’s been such a long time since you played there. What does that mean to you?
HG: It’s one of the biggest honors. I give thanks to the Bulls organization, the front office, the fans, my family, because they are all a part of this honor. To be recognized as one of the Bulls greats in such a prestigious ring of honor. To be up there with the MJs and Scottie Pippens and so forth, it’s an honor.
Three of your nephews have played pro, obviously Jerami, Jerian, and Jerai. Are you proud of what they’ve accomplished? Did you see from an early age their potential to get to that next level?
HG: Well, a lot of people don’t know this, but when they were in high school and college, they used to come here and stay with me during the summertime and train with me and a trainer running on the beaches here in California, the whole nine yards.
Oh, yeah, the potential was there in their youth. And of course, my twin brother [Harvey Grant], their dad, had a lot to do with that also. So, to see that DNA, to see them continue to do their thing in the NBA, and now overseas… Jerian is playing overseas in Greece and getting the MVPs and winning championships over there. And of course, Jerami’s doing his thing in Portland. And just for a sidebar, he got into a little altercation last night with a young man from New Orleans [Yves Missi]. And it was my first time ever seeing my nephew fight and got kicked out the game. [Laughs]
Do you make fun of him in terms of how much more money he makes now than when you played?
HG: Oh, man, we talk all the time. I’m like, man, you almost make in one year what I made my whole 17-year career with four championships. He was like, Unc, you know, things change. I’m like, yeah, I see things changing. [Laughs] But, you know, in good faith, these young men deserve it, man, because basketball is so global now. So the best to them all.
Who would you consider the GOAT?
HG: There are so many ingredients that go into selecting a GOAT. There are many GOATs from different eras, but if I had to choose one… Michael Jeffrey Jordan.
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