YouTube<\/a> as well.<\/p>\nTranscript<\/p>\n
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I\u2019m your host, Ethan Sands, and I\u2019m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And it\u2019s another solo dolo episode of the pod. And as exciting as that may be, unfortunately, we\u2019re here again after another disappointing and inexcusable performance from the Cleveland Cavaliers, who fell 119, 111 in overtime to the Charlotte Hornets on Sunday afternoon. The cavs are now 1512, sitting eighth in the eastern Conference. And at this point in the season, the record is no longer lying to us. Before this game, Kenny Atkinson was asked if there was any real concern with where this team is. He pushed back. He was a little defensive. He said, the sky isn\u2019t falling. There\u2019s no crisis, no catastrophe. And he\u2019s right about one thing. You don\u2019t need a catastrophe for there to be a problem. Sometimes the warning signs show up quietly, but even that hasn\u2019t been the case for this Cleveland Cavaliers team, especially over the last two games. And the Cavs keep playing games where 48 minutes feels negotiable. They hang around long enough, close enough, and against teams like the Washington Wizards and the Charlotte Hornets, two teams that came into Sunday with a combined 10 wins, and yet they still managed to trail both of those teams by 17 points in their recent matchups. That\u2019s not variance to me anymore. That\u2019s behavior. That\u2019s habits that are going to be sticking with this Cavaliers team. And it\u2019s something that we have to keep an eye on, especially when we talk about how this team perceives itself. This team continues to give you one good quarter, maybe one and a half. And more often than not, it comes in the fourth quarter powered by, yeah, you guessed it, Donovan Mitchell showing up with a fire extinguisher to put out a fire he didn\u2019t start. And obviously, as we know, Spider Mitchell, Spider Man Mitchell, Superman, as he\u2019s been called multiple times, has come to the rescue on multiple occasions. But Sunday, Donovan Mitchell did not have it. He was 6 of 24 from the field, 1 of 11 from deep, just 17 points. And that was part of why the Cavs lost, don\u2019t get me wrong. But he still tried to carry the entire weight of the game after the contest and immediately put it on himself.<\/p>\n
Donovan Mitchell: I had one of those nights, on a night on a situation where I\u2019m not allowed to have one of those nights, I feel like if I play better, we win that game. I don\u2019t want to put that on anything else. Put this one on me. We competed we fought clip. I played poorly on both ends of the floor and that\u2019s what happens. If I just half of myself tonight we win. So that\u2019s on me. And I know my teammates won\u2019t say that, but I will.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: And that leads to the real question. When is this team going to win a game without needing Donovan Mitchell as emergency oxygen? The Cavs keep telling us that they\u2019re team oriented, process driven, and Darius Garland even said that even without Evan Mobley, they have enough talent to win games. And you would think so, right? It\u2019s the Charlotte Hornets and the Washington Wizards, two teams that the Cavs penciled in over this next six game stretch that that they would have gotten easy wins against. That\u2019s no longer the case because they haven\u2019t shown that against two of the worst teams in the league and not coming out of a five day break that was supposed to reset them with any level of intensity or energy or drive. We talked on this podcast about the opportunity in front of them. Six winnable games, a chance to springboard to to 2011 heading into the Christmas Day game at Madison Square Garden against the New York Knicks. Instead, they split the first two again against the Charlotte Hornets and the Washington Wizards. And Evan Mobley is going to be out for two to four weeks with that calf injury and suddenly this team feels vulnerable to anyone it faces. Vulnerability travels fast in the NBA. You can bet that teams around the league watched tonight\u2019s games, are going to look back on tonight\u2019s game and sense blood in the water. Which brings us to Kenny Atkinson and his decision making. Kenny has preached experimentation, flexibility and the importance of finding lineups that put players in positions to succeed. But when the game tightens, that experimentation keeps getting shelved. And that happened in the Indiana Pacers series in the Eastern Conference semifinals last year. And and now it\u2019s happening in an 82 game regular season against the Charlotte Hornets. There was a change to the starting lineup Sunday and it was something, but it\u2019s fair to question whether it was the right move. The Cavs started Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Jared Allen, who was returning from finger injuries on both hands, along with DeAndre Hunter and Dean Wade sending Jalen Tyson to the bench. Tyson has proven he can be a real contributor to next to the core four and next to the starting unit, so moving him to the bench was questionable even if it did inject some badly needed pop into the second unit. He finished with 16 points on 6 of 13 shooting and grabbed a team high 13 rebounds.<\/p>\n
Donovan Mitchell: They were throwing a lot at him too. Man like, there\u2019s so much, and there\u2019s. Now there\u2019s an expectation on him, right? Which is a good thing. And I think for him. And I pulled him to the side during one of the free throws. I said, look, you could mess up, excuse me, a thousand more times, but he does it with aggression. He does it with the right intention. Right. You know, he tried to make the game easier for everybody. And that\u2019s where you see him getting rewarded with a lot of his good play. Right? Like, he\u2019s selfless and being able to start, come off the bench. Just has no ego with him, doesn\u2019t think he deserves anything. He continues to go out there and work for it and improve himself. And if he continues to do that, he\u2019ll make a lot of money and he\u2019ll be a habit, pivotal role for us, like we\u2019ve seen, and he\u2019s been consistent every night.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: To me, the necessary change now is seeing what this looks like with DeAndre Hunter coming off the bench. I mentioned it on different podcasts in recent weeks about the potential for Kenny Atkinson to need to go to DeAndre Hunter off the bench when the team is healthy. But maybe he needs to expedite this decision because Kenny has talked about wanting DeAndre to get more reps with the second unit and especially without Evan Mobley. This feels like the moment.<\/p>\n
Kenny Atkinson: I haven\u2019t really explored it. We always talk about lineups. What can we do better? Or, you know, but listen, I always. I always point the finger at myself, you know, how can. How can we put him in better positions? How can I get him with better lineups? Something we got to look at because we need. We need him. We got to get him, you know, get him back. Get him back to the old Dre, you know, so something. Something we got to look at again. I look at it like it\u2019s on me to find. Find the combinations. Right now, we\u2019re not finding the combinations that. That fit him best. So this is. Everything\u2019s always on the table, you know, with. You know, so we\u2019ll look at it, Ethan.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: Let DeAndre Hunter control the flow a bit more. See simpler reads and stop chasing the gate. Sunday night, he finished with 4 points on 107 shooting. And. And the defensive lapses were still there. Right now, the starting group without Evan Mobley in my eyes should be Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Jalen Tyson, Dean Wade, and Jarrett Allen. But that doesn\u2019t really get to what was truly stunning when it came to the overtime contest. Again, Kenny Atkinson has told us that he wants to experiment, he wants to be flexible, he wants to change things up when they\u2019re necessary and when the games call for them, and. But Kenny Atkinson did not make a single substitution, not one. In the overtime period. Dean Wade was playing extended center minutes with Jared Allen on the bench, and it\u2019s not his natural swat. And while his effort deserves praise, after 14 points, eight rebounds, and three triples, his body still fatigues, especially when you\u2019re banging bodies with bigger defenders with bigger players, and he\u2019s going up there trying to get rebounds against bodies that are more difficult than his usual suspects. And we understand the energy and the intensity that Dean Wade played with defense.<\/p>\n
Kenny Atkinson: First, I thought, you know, struggling with defense and rebounding when he. When he\u2019s on the floor, we rebound in, like, the 85th percentile. So I know they were going to start crashing five, which they did. So that. That was part of it. And then we all just felt like we needed to go small, we needed to space the floor. Um, and Dean can hold his own at the 5, obviously. I thought he did a heck of a job, really, that lineup kind of kind of got us back in the game. And again, until Ja gets his rhythm, you know, obviously it\u2019s going to take a little bit of time. Dean at the 5 was kind of what we thought gave us the best chance.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: The other portion of this is Dean Wade is in a contract year, and this stretch without Evan Mobley could end up defining his future with his organization. This Cavs organization will have to decide whether he\u2019s an extension candidate or an intriguing trade piece heading toward the February 5 deadline, because either way, he\u2019s emptied the tank for this team, especially coming into the season, where he looked expendable. He looked like a player that was not playing to his full potential. He wasn\u2019t knocking down shots. He wasn\u2019t taking the same volume that we\u2019re used to from. From him. And it\u2019s a different level of change that we\u2019re seeing from Dean Wade in the starting unit, which is necessary, but also understanding that he knows that his role is more needed, especially with Evan Mobley being sidelined.<\/p>\n
Donovan Mitchell: I mean, he\u2019s invaluable. You know, I think he\u2019s. He\u2019s consistent every day with what he does. And even when the shots necessarily aren\u2019t falling for him, he\u2019s continuously finding a way to get in there, you know, rebound guard, like, even tonight, offensively, like, making plays. At the end of the game, he got fouled on his dunk, like, just trying to find anything possible. He can pop three when the Fives guard. Him being able to be versatile is his special team.<\/p>\n
Darius Garland: Yeah, he means a lot to his team. Just him switching 1 through 5. He can guard every position, he\u2019s out there battling every possession and then he can shoot the heck out of the ball, which spaces the floor for a lot of driving angles. For all of us picking popular, I mean he\u2019s, he\u2019s a good fit for this team. We really need them out there on the four for us and calm today.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: So let\u2019s get to this overtime portion just a little bit. The rest of the lineup looked exhausted and the offense completely dried up. The Cavaliers became the first team since since 2015 to go scoreless in an overtime period, which is an embarrassing stat that took a decade to resurface. And just getting into the experimentations that were made. Obviously we know Tyrese Proctor, who didn\u2019t play until the start of the fourth quarter, immediately shifted the energy and helped keep the game close enough to reach overtime, yet never returned once. The legs looked heavy on everybody who was on the floor. And Thomas Bryant, who gave the Cavs 10 points and six rebounds in just 14 minutes, barely saw the floor late into the contest, playing just three minutes in the fourth quarter. And if Kenny wanted to go to the small ball lineup, which he was talking about, particularly with Evan Mobley out, fresh legs matter. Having energy late matters. And again, this shouldn\u2019t have been a contest where the Cavs needed to go to overtime, but since we were here, you have to think ahead for these kinds of situations. And only letting Tyrese Proctor play six minutes, only letting Craig Porter Jr. Play five minutes, even though Craig Porter Jr. Was not himself. I think you\u2019ve seen this revolving door of Kenny Atkinson when he makes a shift. These players are capable of having an impact, but they still aren\u2019t getting enough minutes to make a substantial impact over the entire game. And if there\u2019s a bad stint and there\u2019s a slow start, if there\u2019s not something that is being done correctly in Kenny Atkinson\u2019s eyes, he completely shuts the water off rather than continuing to give them spurts to see if they can re acclimate or change the narrative for that particular game. And Craig Porter Jr. As I\u2019ve mentioned on this podcast at an Abundance continues to have a short lease and Tyrese Proctor is in this boat as well. And I don\u2019t want to get into too many specifics of this contest, but Darius Garland was also playing through a re aggravated toe injury and it was impossible to ignore he tweaked it again on a drive and when he went to the floor, he slammed the hardwood, limped back on defense, then smacked the chairs on the bench in frustration. Last season, Darius Garland said people didn\u2019t fully understand what he was dealing with physically. And when I asked him and gave him the chance to explain again, he shut the door.<\/p>\n
Darius Garland: I\u2019ve answered all the questions about Monte. I\u2019m not even going answer any more about Monte. I\u2019m out there playing. I\u2019m not there for my teammates, Charlie basketball games.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: That tells me this is something he\u2019s planning to play through all season long. So it\u2019s up to Kenny Atkinson and the coaching staff to alleviate some of the pressure on Darius Garland and what he\u2019s dealing with. And also knowing when they have to save the player from himself. And maybe tonight wasn\u2019t that night, but they have to keep this in mind because when we talk about Darius Garland\u2019s tonight performance, he was the best player on the floor for the Cavs. In multiple spurts, he put up 26 points and nine assists, his best game of the year. And he\u2019s still was not himself. And keeping him on the floor for the entire overtime without even a brief breather felt unnecessary. Sometimes coaching isn\u2019t about drawing up a play. It\u2019s about knowing when to let a player breathe. Kenny Atkinson talked about this in the playoffs of last season when he went away from players even for a minute, 30 seconds. And that was something that he could have done tonight, but he didn\u2019t. And the decision making becomes even more concerning as these things continue to happen and the decisions continue to be questionable when it comes to what Katie Atkinson is doing with this roster. I spoke with Hornets head coach Charles Lee before the game about the importance of the little things and the challenge of balancing analytics with fundamentals in today\u2019s growing NBA.<\/p>\n
Charles Lee: Trying to find the consistency in all those areas for as long as the game lasts is one of the hardest parts. We talk about it a ton with our team. Our defensive absolutes are to be great in transition, to protect the pain and finish possessions. And that\u2019s what you\u2019re contest. That\u2019s when you\u2019re rebounding. And it sounds very simplistic, like we are wearing it in high school. But I think the flow of the game, the intensity of the game making and missing shots, sometimes people\u2019s mindset can all of a sudden, you know, waver as you\u2019re going through that game. And so you just got to find this consistent mindset, this will to want to be able to fight through tough and be able to fight through even as you\u2019re tired during a game or things are going your way or not going your way. I\u2019m going to be committed to still doing those simple things that end up adding up to huge things and taking away another team\u2019s role. I think that as a coach you have to find what are the analytics that make sense to me for my team, what do I think the most important thing is and not be bogged down by all the information that we can have nowadays in our league and in our world. It was great that we had access to it and we had smart people like yourself that are able to figure out these calculations and stuff. But I more so want to rely on the things that I think are most important, the fundamentals that are important and how are we driving some of those numbers to improve them. But don\u2019t let the numbers drive you.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: And that\u2019s where this loss kind of lives, right? The Cavs lost nearly every little thing category, rebounds, fast break points, second chance points, points off turnovers. And that doesn\u2019t align with a team that keeps telling us that the process matters more than the outcome. They escaped with that excuse against the Washington Wizards, but against the Charlotte Hornets, the cracks continued to widen. Darius Garland said the real concern would come once the Cavs are fully healthy if these issues persist. But here\u2019s the reality of this conversation. Evan Mobley likely won\u2019t return until after the new year. Max Strust may not be back until around the All Star break, and there\u2019s no guarantee that this team is ever going to be fully healthy, particularly in the playoffs.<\/p>\n
Darius Garland: I think we really try to just find ourselves, trying to find our identity again. A lot of people going in and out, a lot of different lineups. So just trying to get everybody back together under one accord, that\u2019s going to help us a lot. The guys out there are more than capable of winning basketball games and really competing at a high level. So there\u2019s no excuses for that. It\u2019s got to find the energy, the competition, the spirit all over me.<\/p>\n
Ethan Sands: So the identity that this Cavs team is searching for isn\u2019t something you postpone. It\u2019s something you carry into the building every single night. We\u2019re 27 games into the season, a third of the way in. Donovan Mitchell still doesn\u2019t want to use the word concern. Kenny Atkinson isn\u2019t pressing the panic button. Darius Garland says they\u2019re still searching. All of that can be true at the same time, but the clock is ticking on this team, on this season. And if something doesn\u2019t change and change quickly, the final stretch of December won\u2019t just be difficult because we know the opponent will come into the Rocket arena, or the Cavs will travel outside of Cleveland and have to face teams that know the pressure points to push to dismantle. And the end of the stretch of the December month will be revealing, and the rest of the league will be watching closely as February starts to feel feel uncomfortably close. And you can bet that other NBA teams are going to be licking their chops, thinking that they can disrupt the Cavs Core 4, or look at players like Dean Wade or players across the Cavs roster to enhance their team. But with all that being said, that\u2019ll wrap up today\u2019s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don\u2019t like it, that\u2019s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It\u2019s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the COWS from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn\u2019t just our podcast, it\u2019s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y\u2019 all be safe. We out.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"CLEVELAND, Ohio \u2014 In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast host Ethan Sands dissects the…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":296495,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3777],"tags":[7,684,473,3878,685,6],"class_list":{"0":"post-474544","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-charlotte-hornets","8":"tag-basketball","9":"tag-charlotte","10":"tag-charlotte-hornets","11":"tag-charlottehornets","12":"tag-hornets","13":"tag-nba"},"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"https:\/\/channels.im\/@nba\/115723189898816730","error":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/474544","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=474544"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/474544\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/296495"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=474544"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=474544"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rawchili.com\/nba\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=474544"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}