[Rosenthal] Alek Manoah’s problematic three-inning start against the Padres on Tuesday night might again force club officials to consider adding rotation depth.
July 19, 2023
[Rosenthal] Alek Manoah’s problematic three-inning start against the Padres on Tuesday night might again force club officials to consider adding rotation depth.
25 comments
I’m so Ryu pilled, he will singlehandedly save the season
No idea what the organization was thinking bringing him back up so early. Why even send him down if you aren’t going to give him time to improve? It’s not possible to fix a broken pitcher after 2 bad outings. Butcher job by the organization which could have lasting effects on his confidence. If he’s ever able to regain his form that is.
Stroman incoming
It’s all conditioning. He is an amazing pitcher but he needs to be able to work faster. He looks out of breath by the 5th pitch in an at bat
Stick a fork in him, he’s done.
Yeah no shit, he looked horrible. Send him back to AAA.
He didn’t pitch great yesterday but he also got squeezed multiple times. It was both better and worse than it looked in hindsight, plus he was off for 11 days.
I need to see one more start
I was pretty surprised when he came back up so soon. He’s just not the same guy.
Bring back the Stro Show! Place Kikuchi in the BP and when Ryu returns run him as a 6th with Manoah at 5.
The word “problematic” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
I’m not optimistic about Ryu. Before he got hurt he was being hit hard. What I hope happens:
– Give Manoah another start before the deadline – one final shot to turn it around. If he still can’t get through 5 innings/get swing and misses, send him down for either Green or trade for a bullpen arm
– DFA White, bring up Ryu, have Jackson pitch as mop-up/low leverage guy
– Trade for a solid starter (Stro, Montgomery)
– Have Ryu pitch as an opener to Kikuchi. Combining Ryu’s soft stuff with Kikuchi’s blazing fastball would give hitters two very different looks and allow Kikuchi to face the top of the order less.
– Send Manoah to Buffalo until the roster expands in September.
The fuck happened? His Detroit start showed he got his command back. Next start it’s completely gone again – 5 walks and ~90 pitches in less than 4 innings.
Manoah wasn’t hitting his spots, granted. That umpire was absolutely atrocious. Big Puma was getting pinched on pitches that Musgrove was getting. When you have an ump pull a bush league move like he did in going to the mound at the start of the visit TO LISTEN, you know he knows he’s been blowing calls and is just looking for a reason to throw someone out, Even the commentators said it was inappropriate. That was a convo between Pitching coach and player and he had no right to toss Walker like that
Who realized that he wasn’t quite ready for the big show?
I hope they have not totally ruined his career! Of course a better ump might have helped that first inning, but still the defence was rocky, and to only get ONE run does not get a game won.
Padres were fun to see.
– Adding rotation depth
That is probably the least of our concerns. Some of these black holes that we have in our offense need to go…
Wasn’t all on him, tbh. But I still think acquiring a starter as depth would be wise.
EL5 to me how someone a) loses a pitch and b) can’t ‘finish off’ guys.
They keep talking about a devastating cutter and how he’s not able to do it. What makes a guy lose a pitch all of a sudden?
How can someone like Richards, who was less than lights out last year, get chase after chase for strikeouts, and Manoah can’t get ANY chase?
It’s almost negligent that we didn’t have this depth to begin with. If we had thrown 10-12 million at Kyle Gibson or Drew Smyly, we would’ve at least had someone competent to pitch every fifth day if one of the starters went down. Instead we banked on all of our starters being good and healthy, and the moment one of them wasn’t we were patching things together with bullpen days and praying Ryu would come back quickly. If this deadline nets us Stroman + a decent depth starter I’d consider it a success, clearly our biggest need at this point
STR00000000
RYU! RYU! RYU!
While Alek wasn’t great, he also wasn’t terrible. Let’s see what he does his next time up.
Manoah would be better served to work out the kinks in AAA. His confidence is shot and he looks defeated on the mound. When RYU is ready send Manoah down and work on getting him ready. The Jays will need him at some point.
We shouldn’t see Manoah until next year. These games are too important right now and down the stretch
25 comments
I’m so Ryu pilled, he will singlehandedly save the season
No idea what the organization was thinking bringing him back up so early. Why even send him down if you aren’t going to give him time to improve? It’s not possible to fix a broken pitcher after 2 bad outings. Butcher job by the organization which could have lasting effects on his confidence. If he’s ever able to regain his form that is.
Stroman incoming
It’s all conditioning. He is an amazing pitcher but he needs to be able to work faster. He looks out of breath by the 5th pitch in an at bat
Stick a fork in him, he’s done.
Yeah no shit, he looked horrible. Send him back to AAA.
He didn’t pitch great yesterday but he also got squeezed multiple times. It was both better and worse than it looked in hindsight, plus he was off for 11 days.
I need to see one more start
I was pretty surprised when he came back up so soon. He’s just not the same guy.
Bring back the Stro Show! Place Kikuchi in the BP and when Ryu returns run him as a 6th with Manoah at 5.
– 1. Bassist
– 2. Gausman
– 3. Berrios
– 4. Stroman
– 5. Manoah
– 6. Ryu
The word “problematic” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
I’m not optimistic about Ryu. Before he got hurt he was being hit hard. What I hope happens:
– Give Manoah another start before the deadline – one final shot to turn it around. If he still can’t get through 5 innings/get swing and misses, send him down for either Green or trade for a bullpen arm
– DFA White, bring up Ryu, have Jackson pitch as mop-up/low leverage guy
– Trade for a solid starter (Stro, Montgomery)
– Have Ryu pitch as an opener to Kikuchi. Combining Ryu’s soft stuff with Kikuchi’s blazing fastball would give hitters two very different looks and allow Kikuchi to face the top of the order less.
– Send Manoah to Buffalo until the roster expands in September.
The fuck happened? His Detroit start showed he got his command back. Next start it’s completely gone again – 5 walks and ~90 pitches in less than 4 innings.
Manoah wasn’t hitting his spots, granted. That umpire was absolutely atrocious. Big Puma was getting pinched on pitches that Musgrove was getting. When you have an ump pull a bush league move like he did in going to the mound at the start of the visit TO LISTEN, you know he knows he’s been blowing calls and is just looking for a reason to throw someone out, Even the commentators said it was inappropriate. That was a convo between Pitching coach and player and he had no right to toss Walker like that
Who realized that he wasn’t quite ready for the big show?
I hope they have not totally ruined his career! Of course a better ump might have helped that first inning, but still the defence was rocky, and to only get ONE run does not get a game won.
Padres were fun to see.
– Adding rotation depth
That is probably the least of our concerns. Some of these black holes that we have in our offense need to go…
Wasn’t all on him, tbh. But I still think acquiring a starter as depth would be wise.
EL5 to me how someone a) loses a pitch and b) can’t ‘finish off’ guys.
They keep talking about a devastating cutter and how he’s not able to do it. What makes a guy lose a pitch all of a sudden?
How can someone like Richards, who was less than lights out last year, get chase after chase for strikeouts, and Manoah can’t get ANY chase?
It’s almost negligent that we didn’t have this depth to begin with. If we had thrown 10-12 million at Kyle Gibson or Drew Smyly, we would’ve at least had someone competent to pitch every fifth day if one of the starters went down. Instead we banked on all of our starters being good and healthy, and the moment one of them wasn’t we were patching things together with bullpen days and praying Ryu would come back quickly. If this deadline nets us Stroman + a decent depth starter I’d consider it a success, clearly our biggest need at this point
STR00000000
RYU! RYU! RYU!
While Alek wasn’t great, he also wasn’t terrible. Let’s see what he does his next time up.
Manoah would be better served to work out the kinks in AAA. His confidence is shot and he looks defeated on the mound. When RYU is ready send Manoah down and work on getting him ready. The Jays will need him at some point.
We shouldn’t see Manoah until next year. These games are too important right now and down the stretch
Eno Sarris, through his Stuff+ metric, has been ringing the alarm regarding Manoah going all the way back to last year. [Have a look at the quality of his pitches over the last three seasons.](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=36&season=2023&month=0&season1=2020&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=26410&startdate=2020-01-01&enddate=2023-12-31&sort=1,d)
I think we’re going to end up with Stroman at or just before the deadline.