It was a poor performance by Allen, but I have absolutely no trust on this man
September 12, 2023
This is just a rant. Since that week 3 fiasco last season against miami, Dorsey has been a frustration source for myself week after week. No running game. Allen playing hero ball. I don’t like it.
50 comments
If Allen could stay within the game plan we would’ve won easily. Repeat the first half instead of forcing things and the Jets would’ve had the ball for roughly 20 minutes all game. It was a good game plan, Allen got bored and impatient and then imploded. This loss is 100% on him
Dorsey can be a good OC in this league, but not here. We do not have time to sit around and let this guy learn how to call plays.
We should’ve signed an experienced OC
He did just fine last night. Josh just literally threw the game away.
Outside of the 2&15 draw, he called a fine game. He literally called the game the exact way that people begged him to do last season, shorter routes and misdirection… which is what everyone cried about not doing last season. Literally the two deep balls Allen threw were intercepted. The Oline was not good last night, and not once did allen have enough time to sit in the pocket and actually make a full read. Not once.
Why add a first round TE if you refuse to throw the ball between the has marks ever
There’s only so many times I can watch our 190lbs scatback get crushed in the hole by three linebackers staring him down before I ask:
“Did Ken Dorsey do this on purpose? Was he sent here to destroy James Cook?”
Allen lost the game, but Dorsey can hit the road. Too many runs in 2nd and long, routes too shallow on 3rd, plus the 2nd and 15.
Allen’s having blown it doesn’t change, for me, that Dorsey is a dope, and that Allen isn’t as good a QB since Dorsey took the position
Outside of the overtime play calling Dorsey called a great game. Everyone looked pretty good outside of Allen and Spencer Brown. Our run game finally had some life
There was a series in the 2nd quarter(?) where we were running a new looking personnel package, with Knox, Kincaid, and Cook splitting out into 4-5 wide positions and running a hurry up, almost a revamped k-gun. They looked good, there was play action, they used the two TE to get Cook around the edge where he can do damage.
That’s the only thing that looked good last night from the offense, everything else is just the same old forget to run the ball, 3rd and diggs, 1st and hail Mary to someone 40 yds down field.
Dorsey has flashes of good scheme, but damn it’s getting late early…
Yeah I’m sure he called those 4 turnovers. Josh choked, it’s the first game of the season, shit happens. Not worried at all.
Running on 2nd and 15 in OT was certainly a decision.
The ONLY call I hated was the 2nd and long run in OT. Outside of that, if Allen makes the right read instead of playing hero ball, Bills win in regulation.
Bills can’t lose a game without half of the fan base losing their minds. We don’t need to fire Dorsey. We don’t need to fire McDermott (I know you’re not saying it, but I see fans suggesting it all the time). I’m not saying we need to be happy with losses, or Allen playing poorly. But acting like one loss takes away the fact the Bills are still among the best teams in the league is ungrateful after how many years we went without any playoff appearances. Beane and McDermott changed the culture. Dorsey was critical in helping Allen improve. Now we just need to see Josh take a step back and stop taking shots that aren’t there.
Yes the 2nd and 15 run was a bad call, but if you’re blaming Dorsey, you’re too busy trying to protect Allen to think rationally. Go back and watch some alternate angle replays. Guys are open, Allen refuses to take the check down.
If you want to blame Dorsey for anything, it’s failing to get Josh to quit the hero ball. If Allen dropped back and threw the ball quickly to what the defense was giving him, Bills win easily.
He’s done literally nothing to earn any benefit of the doubt. Offense almost always looks disjointed and out of sync and Allen uncomfortable.
Listen idk if Dorsey is the right guy to be calling plays for this offense, but this is now like the 4th coordinator on either side of the ball that we’ve chosen to blame for team failures since McDermott and Beane took over. It seems we can’t get good coordinators on either side. Or the talent simply isn’t good enough for them to succeed. Whatever the reason is, the blame falls squarely on the HC and the FO. This is a clear sign of mismanagement. We can’t push the blame onto the coordinators forever, at some point we’re going to have to acknowledge the failures of the people who are responsible for hiring these guys and putting together the rosters that they are working with.
Off-Topic: where do I get this sweater?
“LEt jOSh bE JosH!1” no, that was like kinda the problem we had fixed
I thought he called a great game in all honesty, and this is coming from someone who absolutely hated Dorsey last year. Tons of interesting wrinkles, got a lot of different players involved, a bunch of quick easy answers to keep the pressure off Allen.
Allen just kept getting impatient and turned the ball over 4 times. That’s not on the coordinator, that’s on the quarterback.
He’s gone after this year if the turnovers and lackluster performances (not stats) continue. He needs to dial up stuff that makes josh not lose his mind.
Last night Josh seemed wild, didn’t have answers , ran from the pocket when he didn’t need to. Something is up.
People giving slack to Ken Dorsey is questionable. Man’s has done nothing but made Josh look bad the last year.
If you breakdown the play calling in general, he’s trying to be Daboll but he doesn’t have a rhythm to his madness. The biggest issue with his offense is he doesn’t run the ball much (less than 20 times last night) and when he does he calls it at such a shitty time. There’s no verticality to his offense – the dynamic is just not good.
quick slants and screens were majority of the play calling last night. The issue is Ken is forcing josh to play like something he is not. Square peg in a round hole vibes
Also I don’t forgive him for doing that Carolina interview a day before a playoff game last year which ultimately was another showcase of piss poor play calling.
Josh threw three picks, could have been four (dropped.) Josh lost a fumble, could have been two (forward progress.)
…and Dorsey is taking heat? This was on Josh and his hero ball mentality when he gets rattled.
This is an objectively bad take. The two TE set worked well last night.
He schemed easy short completions with YAC opportunities while keeping Josh from getting even more destroyed by that great Dline.
I understand he’s not Daboll, but if Josh just takes what’s there instead of forcing some bad throws, I think you guys win fairly handily. You lost in overtime when your QB had 4 turnovers. That’s not how it’s supposed to work.
Anyone blaming Dorsey I think needs their head checked. It’s such an easy thing to call for the OCs head but everything was there for the bills to succeed from a play calling stand point.
Disagree 100 percent. Allen chose to go rogue. When he was playing within structure the offense was rolling just fine
Nah this one was all on Allen, and i dont even like Dorsey
He never deserved the position he was given on this team with ZERO OC experience. It was a gamble that clearly went wrong.
I’m not sure Josh does either.
I can’t blame Dorsey when Allen is ignoring 5-10 yard first downs and launching the ball into double and triple coverage. You never do that as a rule, if you’re smart. The odds are very not in your favor you expect to lose the play when you do that. The only acceptable huge downfield throw is a 1 on 1 50/50 ball where your guy is better than theirs.
He is calling plays that have people open.. Allen just isn’t seeing it.
He and Allen don’t appear to be on the same page, which is the biggest problem for this team.
Dogshit. This is totally on JA. Dude needs serious humbling. Everyone is talking about the 3 ints (which were bad and dumb), but the fumble is infuriating. Missed snap: dumb, but ok. But arrogant Allen *HAD* to try to fullback run as if he’s getting 20 yards. Fucking A msn, fall on it and regroup.
Ken Dorsey calls games like he’s playing Madden and Josh loves it. It’s like two drug addicts talking themselves into horrible decisions.
The OT play calling was pathetic. However, I think it was a good game plan before Allen decided he wanted to step out of it.
Since being In the league he leads the nfl in turn overs. Even with Dabol . It’s time to acknowledge he is who he is.
Anyone blaming Dorsey right now either 1. thinks an offensive coordinator can fix every thing about an offense, 2. just needs a scapegoat that isn’t Josh Allen, 3. didn’t watch the game, 4. knows nothing about football, or 5. is confused about the stats of our offense last year.
I don’t have access to the all-22 at this time, so I will rely on some clips from Twitter. Here is the 1st interception:
Allen could have easily ran for the first down here. There is one defender between him and the 1st down marker. I also wonder (would be easier with the all-22) if Gabe was open as he looks wide open on the video replay. I don’t know where the defender was compared to him though so hard to say there. Allen should be running for the first down. If he wants to go deep, draw something up on 1st or 2nd down, not 3rd and long. Also, not sure I would be throwing a deep ball to Deonte Harty unless he’s wide open. He wasn’t. He’s actually double covered. Unless Dorsey specifically told Allen to go deep because he saw something there, it wasn’t on Dorsey.
Here’s the 2nd interception (this video actually shows 1, 2, and 3):
This play is again on Allen. Although, the only option appears to be James Cook on a short dump off, but if that is all available he should take the short yards and head to 3rd and 8 or so. But again, he’s throwing into double coverage but at least this time he’s throwing to Diggs. If Whitehead isn’t there, he does have Diggs open if he leads him towards the sidelines of the endzone. But, Whitehead is there the entire time. Again, not sure how he misses the double coverage here. And, again, unless Dorsey told him to throw it deep because he saw something that was there, that’s not on Dorsey.
The 3rd and final interception (also in the video above) shows another mistake by Allen. He should have thrown to Kincaid who was open for the first down, just past the marker. Diggs is also in the middle of the field, crossing towards the sidelines and is open enough for the first down here as well. Taking either of these plays gets the team to 1st down. Taking the easy yards here again gets a first and the team keeps driving. Finally, if Allen throws this more towards the sideline and where Davis was heading there is a chance it is either broken up, Davis makes a nice grab, or the defense makes a spectacular interception. If you re-watch the video it looks like a mistake was made by Allen on the throw or Davis on the route. Davis actually has to come back towards the ball. Again, not sure how this is on Dorsey especially when two other players were open and the ball was pushed towards a receiver who was almost double covered again.
Finally, based on last year’s stats we were 2nd in total yards per game, 7th in passing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per game, and 2nd in points per game. **I am not sure what more you can ask of from your offensive coordinator**. You’re not going to replace him with anything that much better. We have offensive line problems and Allen’s decision making problems. Not sure how that is on the offensive coordinator though but keep blaming Dorsey.
Our offense looks boring as fuck since this guy took over.
Worst OC we could have given the job to
Actually it’s the “combination” of the two kind of like a bad relationship. He makes questionable calls and I think he may often encourage Josh’s bad habits
I appreciate trying to get the run and short game going, I really do. However, I would have liked to see some diversity in that approach, especially against a rock solid d line like the jets.
Bring in a tight end or something, it seemed like it was either run or screen for the whole game.
Dorsey takes way too much blame. You can’t game plan for your star player turning the ball over 4 times. Dorsey needs to improve, but he was a first year Offensive Coordinator last year and the Bills did have one of the top offenses in the league. A first year coach is going to make mistakes. Every person on this sub has been new to a job and needed to learn from mistakes to improve. Maybe the Bills should have picked someone with more experience to run the Offense, but if you’re always hiring externally you’re going to have a hard time finding coaches that want to work for your team.
Josh having 4 turnovers isn’t because of Dorsey, at all. This loss was totally on Josh and he owned up to it. Other qbs would just stay silent and blame others. We played a good defense and we would have won if Josh played smarter. He will bounce back and be ready for the home opener. Go Josh. Go Bills.
Everyone talking about the window closing, it already closed the day Daboll signed with NYG. 13 seconds is as close as we will ever get.
Anyone blaming Dorsey needs to go watch twitter scouts as they are showing how Josh had options and he did not take them.
Not sure why the boys didn’t go for some safe field goal plays coulda won 22-9!
Has Dorsey made any comments since last nights game?
I’m very much done with him too.. I firmly believe Allen regression is due to Dorsey scheme..sure Josh is not helping himself, but the general play call is very uninspiring..
Me neither.
Can we all calm down a bit
They were up by 10 against a backup QB and they ran the ball a total of 22 times all game. Including Allen’s scrambles. Not only is it wretched play calling, it puts our star QB under way more stress and in way more danger than necessary. Coaching has held this team back in the entire Allen era. Just abysmal.
50 comments
If Allen could stay within the game plan we would’ve won easily. Repeat the first half instead of forcing things and the Jets would’ve had the ball for roughly 20 minutes all game. It was a good game plan, Allen got bored and impatient and then imploded. This loss is 100% on him
Dorsey can be a good OC in this league, but not here. We do not have time to sit around and let this guy learn how to call plays.
We should’ve signed an experienced OC
He did just fine last night. Josh just literally threw the game away.
Outside of the 2&15 draw, he called a fine game. He literally called the game the exact way that people begged him to do last season, shorter routes and misdirection… which is what everyone cried about not doing last season. Literally the two deep balls Allen threw were intercepted. The Oline was not good last night, and not once did allen have enough time to sit in the pocket and actually make a full read. Not once.
Why add a first round TE if you refuse to throw the ball between the has marks ever
There’s only so many times I can watch our 190lbs scatback get crushed in the hole by three linebackers staring him down before I ask:
“Did Ken Dorsey do this on purpose? Was he sent here to destroy James Cook?”
Allen lost the game, but Dorsey can hit the road. Too many runs in 2nd and long, routes too shallow on 3rd, plus the 2nd and 15.
Allen’s having blown it doesn’t change, for me, that Dorsey is a dope, and that Allen isn’t as good a QB since Dorsey took the position
Outside of the overtime play calling Dorsey called a great game. Everyone looked pretty good outside of Allen and Spencer Brown. Our run game finally had some life
There was a series in the 2nd quarter(?) where we were running a new looking personnel package, with Knox, Kincaid, and Cook splitting out into 4-5 wide positions and running a hurry up, almost a revamped k-gun. They looked good, there was play action, they used the two TE to get Cook around the edge where he can do damage.
That’s the only thing that looked good last night from the offense, everything else is just the same old forget to run the ball, 3rd and diggs, 1st and hail Mary to someone 40 yds down field.
Dorsey has flashes of good scheme, but damn it’s getting late early…
Yeah I’m sure he called those 4 turnovers. Josh choked, it’s the first game of the season, shit happens. Not worried at all.
Running on 2nd and 15 in OT was certainly a decision.
The ONLY call I hated was the 2nd and long run in OT. Outside of that, if Allen makes the right read instead of playing hero ball, Bills win in regulation.
Bills can’t lose a game without half of the fan base losing their minds. We don’t need to fire Dorsey. We don’t need to fire McDermott (I know you’re not saying it, but I see fans suggesting it all the time). I’m not saying we need to be happy with losses, or Allen playing poorly. But acting like one loss takes away the fact the Bills are still among the best teams in the league is ungrateful after how many years we went without any playoff appearances. Beane and McDermott changed the culture. Dorsey was critical in helping Allen improve. Now we just need to see Josh take a step back and stop taking shots that aren’t there.
Yes the 2nd and 15 run was a bad call, but if you’re blaming Dorsey, you’re too busy trying to protect Allen to think rationally. Go back and watch some alternate angle replays. Guys are open, Allen refuses to take the check down.
If you want to blame Dorsey for anything, it’s failing to get Josh to quit the hero ball. If Allen dropped back and threw the ball quickly to what the defense was giving him, Bills win easily.
He’s done literally nothing to earn any benefit of the doubt. Offense almost always looks disjointed and out of sync and Allen uncomfortable.
Listen idk if Dorsey is the right guy to be calling plays for this offense, but this is now like the 4th coordinator on either side of the ball that we’ve chosen to blame for team failures since McDermott and Beane took over. It seems we can’t get good coordinators on either side. Or the talent simply isn’t good enough for them to succeed. Whatever the reason is, the blame falls squarely on the HC and the FO. This is a clear sign of mismanagement. We can’t push the blame onto the coordinators forever, at some point we’re going to have to acknowledge the failures of the people who are responsible for hiring these guys and putting together the rosters that they are working with.
Off-Topic: where do I get this sweater?
“LEt jOSh bE JosH!1” no, that was like kinda the problem we had fixed
I thought he called a great game in all honesty, and this is coming from someone who absolutely hated Dorsey last year. Tons of interesting wrinkles, got a lot of different players involved, a bunch of quick easy answers to keep the pressure off Allen.
Allen just kept getting impatient and turned the ball over 4 times. That’s not on the coordinator, that’s on the quarterback.
He’s gone after this year if the turnovers and lackluster performances (not stats) continue. He needs to dial up stuff that makes josh not lose his mind.
Last night Josh seemed wild, didn’t have answers , ran from the pocket when he didn’t need to. Something is up.
People giving slack to Ken Dorsey is questionable. Man’s has done nothing but made Josh look bad the last year.
If you breakdown the play calling in general, he’s trying to be Daboll but he doesn’t have a rhythm to his madness. The biggest issue with his offense is he doesn’t run the ball much (less than 20 times last night) and when he does he calls it at such a shitty time. There’s no verticality to his offense – the dynamic is just not good.
quick slants and screens were majority of the play calling last night. The issue is Ken is forcing josh to play like something he is not. Square peg in a round hole vibes
Also I don’t forgive him for doing that Carolina interview a day before a playoff game last year which ultimately was another showcase of piss poor play calling.
Josh threw three picks, could have been four (dropped.)
Josh lost a fumble, could have been two (forward progress.)
…and Dorsey is taking heat? This was on Josh and his hero ball mentality when he gets rattled.
This is an objectively bad take. The two TE set worked well last night.
He schemed easy short completions with YAC opportunities while keeping Josh from getting even more destroyed by that great Dline.
I understand he’s not Daboll, but if Josh just takes what’s there instead of forcing some bad throws, I think you guys win fairly handily. You lost in overtime when your QB had 4 turnovers. That’s not how it’s supposed to work.
Anyone blaming Dorsey I think needs their head checked. It’s such an easy thing to call for the OCs head but everything was there for the bills to succeed from a play calling stand point.
Disagree 100 percent. Allen chose to go rogue. When he was playing within structure the offense was rolling just fine
Nah this one was all on Allen, and i dont even like Dorsey
He never deserved the position he was given on this team with ZERO OC experience. It was a gamble that clearly went wrong.
I’m not sure Josh does either.
I can’t blame Dorsey when Allen is ignoring 5-10 yard first downs and launching the ball into double and triple coverage. You never do that as a rule, if you’re smart. The odds are very not in your favor you expect to lose the play when you do that. The only acceptable huge downfield throw is a 1 on 1 50/50 ball where your guy is better than theirs.
He is calling plays that have people open.. Allen just isn’t seeing it.
He and Allen don’t appear to be on the same page, which is the biggest problem for this team.
Dogshit. This is totally on JA. Dude needs serious humbling. Everyone is talking about the 3 ints (which were bad and dumb), but the fumble is infuriating. Missed snap: dumb, but ok. But arrogant Allen *HAD* to try to fullback run as if he’s getting 20 yards. Fucking A msn, fall on it and regroup.
Ken Dorsey calls games like he’s playing Madden and Josh loves it. It’s like two drug addicts talking themselves into horrible decisions.
The OT play calling was pathetic. However, I think it was a good game plan before Allen decided he wanted to step out of it.
Since being In the league he leads the nfl in turn overs. Even with Dabol . It’s time to acknowledge he is who he is.
Anyone blaming Dorsey right now either 1. thinks an offensive coordinator can fix every thing about an offense, 2. just needs a scapegoat that isn’t Josh Allen, 3. didn’t watch the game, 4. knows nothing about football, or 5. is confused about the stats of our offense last year.
I don’t have access to the all-22 at this time, so I will rely on some clips from Twitter. Here is the 1st interception:
[https://twitter.com/ClutchBetSB/status/1701398998127612283](https://twitter.com/ClutchBetSB/status/1701398998127612283)
Allen could have easily ran for the first down here. There is one defender between him and the 1st down marker. I also wonder (would be easier with the all-22) if Gabe was open as he looks wide open on the video replay. I don’t know where the defender was compared to him though so hard to say there. Allen should be running for the first down. If he wants to go deep, draw something up on 1st or 2nd down, not 3rd and long. Also, not sure I would be throwing a deep ball to Deonte Harty unless he’s wide open. He wasn’t. He’s actually double covered. Unless Dorsey specifically told Allen to go deep because he saw something there, it wasn’t on Dorsey.
Here’s the 2nd interception (this video actually shows 1, 2, and 3):
[https://twitter.com/pabloikonyero/status/1701499849009467659](https://twitter.com/pabloikonyero/status/1701499849009467659)
This play is again on Allen. Although, the only option appears to be James Cook on a short dump off, but if that is all available he should take the short yards and head to 3rd and 8 or so. But again, he’s throwing into double coverage but at least this time he’s throwing to Diggs. If Whitehead isn’t there, he does have Diggs open if he leads him towards the sidelines of the endzone. But, Whitehead is there the entire time. Again, not sure how he misses the double coverage here. And, again, unless Dorsey told him to throw it deep because he saw something that was there, that’s not on Dorsey.
The 3rd and final interception (also in the video above) shows another mistake by Allen. He should have thrown to Kincaid who was open for the first down, just past the marker. Diggs is also in the middle of the field, crossing towards the sidelines and is open enough for the first down here as well. Taking either of these plays gets the team to 1st down. Taking the easy yards here again gets a first and the team keeps driving. Finally, if Allen throws this more towards the sideline and where Davis was heading there is a chance it is either broken up, Davis makes a nice grab, or the defense makes a spectacular interception. If you re-watch the video it looks like a mistake was made by Allen on the throw or Davis on the route. Davis actually has to come back towards the ball. Again, not sure how this is on Dorsey especially when two other players were open and the ball was pushed towards a receiver who was almost double covered again.
Finally, based on last year’s stats we were 2nd in total yards per game, 7th in passing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per game, and 2nd in points per game. **I am not sure what more you can ask of from your offensive coordinator**. You’re not going to replace him with anything that much better. We have offensive line problems and Allen’s decision making problems. Not sure how that is on the offensive coordinator though but keep blaming Dorsey.
Our offense looks boring as fuck since this guy took over.
Worst OC we could have given the job to
Actually it’s the “combination” of the two kind of like a bad relationship. He makes questionable calls and I think he may often encourage Josh’s bad habits
I appreciate trying to get the run and short game going, I really do. However, I would have liked to see some diversity in that approach, especially against a rock solid d line like the jets.
Bring in a tight end or something, it seemed like it was either run or screen for the whole game.
Dorsey takes way too much blame. You can’t game plan for your star player turning the ball over 4 times. Dorsey needs to improve, but he was a first year Offensive Coordinator last year and the Bills did have one of the top offenses in the league. A first year coach is going to make mistakes. Every person on this sub has been new to a job and needed to learn from mistakes to improve. Maybe the Bills should have picked someone with more experience to run the Offense, but if you’re always hiring externally you’re going to have a hard time finding coaches that want to work for your team.
Josh having 4 turnovers isn’t because of Dorsey, at all. This loss was totally on Josh and he owned up to it. Other qbs would just stay silent and blame others. We played a good defense and we would have won if Josh played smarter. He will bounce back and be ready for the home opener. Go Josh. Go Bills.
Everyone talking about the window closing, it already closed the day Daboll signed with NYG. 13 seconds is as close as we will ever get.
Anyone blaming Dorsey needs to go watch twitter scouts as they are showing how Josh had options and he did not take them.
Not sure why the boys didn’t go for some safe field goal plays coulda won 22-9!
Has Dorsey made any comments since last nights game?
I’m very much done with him too.. I firmly believe Allen regression is due to Dorsey scheme..sure Josh is not helping himself, but the general play call is very uninspiring..
Me neither.
Can we all calm down a bit
They were up by 10 against a backup QB and they ran the ball a total of 22 times all game. Including Allen’s scrambles. Not only is it wretched play calling, it puts our star QB under way more stress and in way more danger than necessary. Coaching has held this team back in the entire Allen era. Just abysmal.