Ken Rosenthal – Sonny Gray finalizing three-year, $75M contract with Cardinals
November 27, 2023
Ken Rosenthal – Sonny Gray finalizing three-year, $75M contract with Cardinals
25 comments
That’s a lot of money for a soon to be 36 year old in his last year.
And we give up a draft pick for this too, yes?
Idk, a rotation of Gray, Mikolas, Matz (can’t stay healthy), Gibson, and Lynn is… not great. Not sure it can get us to even .500 this season.
If they make a trade for someone else, it’s a C+ off-season, but as it stands… I don’t love it.
Keep in mind they haven’t made any trades yet and still have both O’Neill and Carlson on the roster plus a middle infield crunch between Edman, Winn, Donnie, and Gorman (four players that all should be starting). I wouldn’t be surprised if Matz or Mikolas was traded prior to the start of the season for a better starter (not in the same deal)
If we make some trades then this offseason was fine I guess, still don’t like that it feels like we have barely any pitching for 5 years out
This feels like a really reasonable deal. I was worried Gray would push for 4-5 years and have this be his last real contract. I’d still love the team to do something else this offseason, but I also think with Lynn and Gibson’s deals both having club options, they could free up additional salary for next year and stay flexible.
Would I rather have Yamamoto? Of course, but Gray is a damn good pitcher and he’s the best starter we’ve had since Flaherty’s crazy second half.
I also still expect us to make a trade only because we almost have to with the log jam of OFs and MIs in the system. That might just be pieces for the bullpen, but as we sit on November 27th, I feel pretty okay about free agency.
Obviously we’re “buying high” since he’s coming off one of his best years, but damn you guys are insane with the takes. He was a finalist for a cy last year and everyone is like “meh”, it’s literally one of the biggest pitchers we could’ve picked up.
This is nice. Now get Yamamoto and we can argue that this team is an actual contender.
The deal itself is actually pretty good imo. Sucks that we lose a high 2nd though
My copium is thinking we’re still not done SP-wise though
That’s a great deal in this market. Not sure why people are upset.
At least Mo did something decently bold here. I was worried we’d go back to Monty, and while he did great in the postseason, “we’ve already seen that rodeo” for us last year.
Gray would’ve been the best pitcher on the team last year hands down.
Agree with other folks that we have a lot of assets still to move. Matz’s salary is actually low enough (and his arm fragile enough) that he could stabilize the BP from the left side.
Trade for one more really solid arm and it’s no worse than the transition from the 1999 to 2000 rotation, which really was the turning point for the Jocketty-led Cards.
The other part of this is the rotation as constructed CAN be good enough. Look at the 2011 rotation if you don’t believe me.
But then the BP has to be lights out.
I worry we’re going to mess around with too many Helsley types who have good peripherals, but who seem to wilt in the biggest pressure spots.
If you have a bunch of guys who can go 6-7 innings, 3-4 really good (prime era) Maness / Boggs / Siegrest types, and a shutdown closer, you can hand the keys to Ollie and even he shouldn’t be able to mess that up.
Good, not a fan of him personally but he seems to get the job done. Great SP3, decent SP2.
An actual #1 is still a necessity.
So of course that’s it.
Gray Lynn Matz Mikolas Gibson.
That’s a losing rotation. Why even bother spending as much as they did.
Gray’s solid and makes me a bit more comfortable with our rotation.
I still think we should pursue Yamamoto and think it’s asinine if we don’t compete–worst case is we help drive the price up. But it makes sense from both baseball and bromance perspectives and it’s dumb to argue we can’t afford him. We’re just too cheap.
Our rotation is still below average though. I feel like we are positioning ourselves for a trade with an impact starter. We loaded up on starting pitching pretty early in the offseason, so now we have innings that (1) make our position less desperate in trade discussions and (2) allow us to throw in a starter if the other team will need innings after sending us their impact starter. I could see us trading a couple of our talented young position players and an innings-eater for an impact starter, and maybe offload a bit of our salary burden at the same time (because we’re cheap).
Things aren’t looking **good** yet, but they have gone from disastrous to bad. Which is pretty important.
This is a great deal that gives us flexibility, but we still need another top end rotation piece. The offseason will be considered a failure without them finding it.
That’s not bad but I still hate Mo
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I’d rather the Cardinals strike now knowing he’s willing to sign than wait and miss out because they’re working through the Yamamoto sweepstakes, only to miss out on both. Getting Yamamoto while ideal, was anything but a guarantee.
I love this signing! Gray should be really good for us next year. I think the negative comments stem from the possibility, not unlikely, that the rest of the rotation will be atrocious. Lynn, Gibson, Matz, and Mikolas could be league-average or better innings eaters, or they could all be terrible. There is a scenario where we have one very good starter (Gray) and then the worst 2-5 SPs in the league.
As said by @AaronMSTL on Twitter:
I do want to make it known that I do like Sonny Gray.
I just also want to make it known that I want the Cardinals to acquire another top tier starter.
So they will trade for another sp… unexciting. I want Yamamoto!!!
i feel like how nolan does in the side bar
Now go get Cease or Glasnow and I’ll be content
The way I look at it is: if you’re not aggressive on getting someone like gray, he signs elsewhere (Braves), and you have optimistically a 25% chance at Yamamoto, then what after he goes to the Mets? You overpay in a trade for a pitcher like Glasgow or Cease who had significantly worse seasons last year than Gray? The guy did finish 2nd in AL CY young last year.
I like this deal, and if we snag Montgomery I will like it even more. Monty wouldn’t make much sense though with Mikolas/Matz/Lynn/Gibson
Buying high, but it could be worse. We should just accept this as it is what it is and hope it works out.
25 comments
That’s a lot of money for a soon to be 36 year old in his last year.
And we give up a draft pick for this too, yes?
Idk, a rotation of Gray, Mikolas, Matz (can’t stay healthy), Gibson, and Lynn is… not great. Not sure it can get us to even .500 this season.
If they make a trade for someone else, it’s a C+ off-season, but as it stands… I don’t love it.
Keep in mind they haven’t made any trades yet and still have both O’Neill and Carlson on the roster plus a middle infield crunch between Edman, Winn, Donnie, and Gorman (four players that all should be starting). I wouldn’t be surprised if Matz or Mikolas was traded prior to the start of the season for a better starter (not in the same deal)
If we make some trades then this offseason was fine I guess, still don’t like that it feels like we have barely any pitching for 5 years out
This feels like a really reasonable deal. I was worried Gray would push for 4-5 years and have this be his last real contract. I’d still love the team to do something else this offseason, but I also think with Lynn and Gibson’s deals both having club options, they could free up additional salary for next year and stay flexible.
Would I rather have Yamamoto? Of course, but Gray is a damn good pitcher and he’s the best starter we’ve had since Flaherty’s crazy second half.
I also still expect us to make a trade only because we almost have to with the log jam of OFs and MIs in the system. That might just be pieces for the bullpen, but as we sit on November 27th, I feel pretty okay about free agency.
Obviously we’re “buying high” since he’s coming off one of his best years, but damn you guys are insane with the takes. He was a finalist for a cy last year and everyone is like “meh”, it’s literally one of the biggest pitchers we could’ve picked up.
This is nice. Now get Yamamoto and we can argue that this team is an actual contender.
The deal itself is actually pretty good imo. Sucks that we lose a high 2nd though
My copium is thinking we’re still not done SP-wise though
That’s a great deal in this market. Not sure why people are upset.
At least Mo did something decently bold here. I was worried we’d go back to Monty, and while he did great in the postseason, “we’ve already seen that rodeo” for us last year.
Gray would’ve been the best pitcher on the team last year hands down.
Agree with other folks that we have a lot of assets still to move. Matz’s salary is actually low enough (and his arm fragile enough) that he could stabilize the BP from the left side.
Trade for one more really solid arm and it’s no worse than the transition from the 1999 to 2000 rotation, which really was the turning point for the Jocketty-led Cards.
The other part of this is the rotation as constructed CAN be good enough. Look at the 2011 rotation if you don’t believe me.
But then the BP has to be lights out.
I worry we’re going to mess around with too many Helsley types who have good peripherals, but who seem to wilt in the biggest pressure spots.
If you have a bunch of guys who can go 6-7 innings, 3-4 really good (prime era) Maness / Boggs / Siegrest types, and a shutdown closer, you can hand the keys to Ollie and even he shouldn’t be able to mess that up.
Good, not a fan of him personally but he seems to get the job done. Great SP3, decent SP2.
An actual #1 is still a necessity.
So of course that’s it.
Gray Lynn Matz Mikolas Gibson.
That’s a losing rotation. Why even bother spending as much as they did.
Gray’s solid and makes me a bit more comfortable with our rotation.
I still think we should pursue Yamamoto and think it’s asinine if we don’t compete–worst case is we help drive the price up. But it makes sense from both baseball and bromance perspectives and it’s dumb to argue we can’t afford him. We’re just too cheap.
Our rotation is still below average though. I feel like we are positioning ourselves for a trade with an impact starter. We loaded up on starting pitching pretty early in the offseason, so now we have innings that (1) make our position less desperate in trade discussions and (2) allow us to throw in a starter if the other team will need innings after sending us their impact starter. I could see us trading a couple of our talented young position players and an innings-eater for an impact starter, and maybe offload a bit of our salary burden at the same time (because we’re cheap).
Things aren’t looking **good** yet, but they have gone from disastrous to bad. Which is pretty important.
This is a great deal that gives us flexibility, but we still need another top end rotation piece. The offseason will be considered a failure without them finding it.
That’s not bad but I still hate Mo
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I’d rather the Cardinals strike now knowing he’s willing to sign than wait and miss out because they’re working through the Yamamoto sweepstakes, only to miss out on both. Getting Yamamoto while ideal, was anything but a guarantee.
I love this signing! Gray should be really good for us next year. I think the negative comments stem from the possibility, not unlikely, that the rest of the rotation will be atrocious. Lynn, Gibson, Matz, and Mikolas could be league-average or better innings eaters, or they could all be terrible. There is a scenario where we have one very good starter (Gray) and then the worst 2-5 SPs in the league.
As said by @AaronMSTL on Twitter:
I do want to make it known that I do like Sonny Gray.
I just also want to make it known that I want the Cardinals to acquire another top tier starter.
Those two thoughts can exist simultaneously.
https://twitter.com/AaronMSTL/status/1729131896687546763?s=19
So we done this offseason?
Ehhh 🤷🏼
So they will trade for another sp… unexciting. I want Yamamoto!!!
i feel like how nolan does in the side bar
Now go get Cease or Glasnow and I’ll be content
The way I look at it is: if you’re not aggressive on getting someone like gray, he signs elsewhere (Braves), and you have optimistically a 25% chance at Yamamoto, then what after he goes to the Mets? You overpay in a trade for a pitcher like Glasgow or Cease who had significantly worse seasons last year than Gray? The guy did finish 2nd in AL CY young last year.
I like this deal, and if we snag Montgomery I will like it even more. Monty wouldn’t make much sense though with Mikolas/Matz/Lynn/Gibson
Buying high, but it could be worse. We should just accept this as it is what it is and hope it works out.