Here’s how a conversation went on Effectively Wild during their Giants preview where they brought on Grant Brisbee:
>Ben Lindbergh (host):
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>*You’ve been saying for a while that the Giants need to develop their own homegrown stars. That was even the goal you gave the team on last year’s team preview. Do you think that they are doing that? Are they coming closer to doing that? Can you look at the core they are developing and say ‘yes, this is the foundation of the next great Giants team!’?*
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>Grant Brisbee:
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>*Yes, and no* \[talks about Rayner Arias and Bryce Eldridge being the guys he’s most excited about\]. *I’m also excited in the near term because they have guys that I think can help \[talks about Matos and Meckler\]. I don’t necessarily worry about the pitching pipeline* \[talks about Keaton Winn and Triston Beck being good pitchers that weren’t top prospects, and then finishes by mentioning Roupp, Black and Whisenhunt as a more exciting group of pitching prospects\].
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>*When it comes to the farm system it’s been historically bad* \[at developing position players\]*. The Giants have to get better with younger players getting them into the majors. If Matos and Luciano can be a part of that first wave where you have shepherded them all throughout the teens and into the majors, that’s going to be a heck of a start.*
Patrick Bailey having a 3 WAR rookie season, and being projected as a [Top 10 Catcher for 2024](https://www.fangraphs.com/projections?pos=c&stats=bat&type=thebatx&sortcol=20&sortdir=desc&lg=&team=), should absolutely be the first bullet point when discussing player development in the org and the future core of the team.
I’m not trying to take shots at Grant (he praised Bailey’s defense during another topic so it’s not like he’s anti-Bailey), he’s just the most recent example that led me to my current observation. I feel like I’ve heard very similar conversations on Giants Talk with Pavlovic and coming from people like Crowley and Roger Munter.
There’s something about the way Bailey went from Bust to Stud in the blink of an eye with no in-between that makes him forgotten during these discussions. He wasn’t the #2 overall pick like Bart, we haven’t been waiting on him for years like Luciano/Matos, and he didn’t fly up prospect lists like Harrison or Whisenhunt. He just kind of arrived last May and immediately looked like a 3-5 Win catcher.
I’m perfectly fine having a critical conversation about the Giants position player development. I think Ben’s question was a good one. But it makes no sense to have this conversation and completely ignore Patrick Bailey, who looks like the best home grown position player that the Giants have developed in over 10 years.
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I’d imagine that Grant just forgot to mention him. From what you posted, he also doesn’t mention Harrison, but I’d imagine that he believes that both players are part of the next great core
I’m not ready yet to call Bailey a stud, loved what I’ve seen defensively, but his bat fell off noticeably later in the season. Hopefully it was just the season wearing him down, but I need to see a full season from him first.
Bailey gets forgotten because he is an all world defensive catcher, but hasn’t really proven it with the bat yet. When people talk about position players being superstars, they usually mean hitting.
Fans are hungry for every day hitters that can carry an offense because there hasn’t been one in the lineup since 2021. They haven’t drafted and developed one since the Brandon’s. Farhan hasn’t drafted and developed one yet, and its possible his first is years away (I forget if he signed Matos). Bailey is probably gonna be great, but he’s not exactly what people are looking for when answering that question.
These conversations aren’t about people looking for the actual answer
Who has forgotten Bailey?! He was the only reason I kept tuning in last season. Quite literally his defense and cannon of an arm was the best thing the Giants had going last year. Now if he could hit too, he could be something special.
If he hits <700 OPS (last year 644) then he won’t exactly be a success story. Gold Glove guy but with a bat like that, his value is mids.
I think people expect quick linear progression which happens to the top 1% of prospects. But in most cases players struggles at various points in the minors
Last year saw the graduation of a number of first rounders of the 2019 draft which was Farhans first draft. I think the frustrating thing is that we have hardly seen our first round pick from 2019 play. There is maybe 5 players so far from this draft we can say are studs, some have looked like studs and fallen off after a great start. But in reality Tyler Fitzgerald or maybe a long shot with McCray probably being the guys mostly likely to provide value to the big league club coming from the 2019 draft. I do think the lack of minor league season in 2020 could also have impacted the ability for some of these guys to develop. I do just want to say, I’m still happy that they went out and took a chance on a big time power prospect in the first round instead of going after a fringe utility infielder with no power like the previous regime kept taking.
Last year was really the first look of 2020 draft class in the MLB and so far you have to be happy with our picks. Remember it generally takes players a couple years after making their big league debut to develop into the players they will be, remember progression is not linear. Even if its just Harrison and Bailey, from such a small draft class that is HUGE.
We really don’t know how things will turn out, but I do think our pitching heavy drafts these last couple years will turn out some studs that we can all be excited to watch every day. I do think its fair to compare his drafts to the previous five drafts and say, things have unequivocally improved and the future is bright.
It’s because defense isn’t as sexy as offense. Since Bailey’s skill set is very defense heavy, he isn’t treated like a top prospect. If he were average on D but could hit 20 homers a season, his rep would be much different. He would be looked at like Luciano is now.
Defense is valuable but you’ve got to hit in the majors, unless the rest of your lineup can compensate.
It’s quite possible the reason why they’re only seeing pitching come through the development pipeline and not many position players is because they pretty much only drafted pitching in 2021 and 2022. Why they did that is probably because the organization believed the young pitching depth is harder to find than young bats I’d imagine. A FA you sign at 30 may decline defensively and at the plate, but they still produce something. A FA pitcher you sign at 30 may have their arm fall off and you eat 200 mill. Or maybe they felt that they were just better at pitcher development, and could use that excess to trade for position players down the road. Who knows. But they clearly shifted their focus to believing that good controllable young pitching was far more important than good controllable young hitting; both are important, but they favored pitching and obviously looked at their organization and felt it was a weakness in the minors. So they basically spent two drafts and went all pitching. And now, they are basically packed with arms ready to break out.
NorCal Sports Network went over all the draft picks during the Farhan era a few weeks ago on their podcast and let’s just say, the picks that are in the top 50 overall over the past years are very few. When you see the actual ‘statistics’ on how Farhan’s team has drafted, you’d be wondering who the heck are their scouts.
He looks very promising but he hasn’t played a full season yet so what exactly is he supposed to get credit for?
I was stating how bad our system has been for years now in developing hitters in a similar thread and was smited by Farhan stans. Glad to be getting some validation from the Bris. 🫡
We’re hopeful. The defensive skills are there but it’s too small of a sample size to tell if Bailey will contribute offensively, and the way his bat tanked at the end of 2023 made it way too premature for Farhan to take a victory lap.
One player is not a core