NECAS TRADE RUMOR, PATRIK LAINE, & HELENIUS PROFILE – Winged Wheel Podcast – June 16th, 2024

NECAS TRADE RUMOR, PATRIK LAINE, & HELENIUS PROFILE – Winged Wheel Podcast – June 16th, 2024

[Music] welcome to the winged wheel podcast here to talk all things hockey are your hosts Brad krisco Ryan Hannah and Evan lobsinger once a year a holiday dedicated just to you Brad on the show Happy Father’s Day thank you do you feel like you’re honored you’re special like this is this day is about you I haven’t even oh my God he’s still talking good Lord I I hope you were spoiled today you do you go through it I haven’t even seen my kids today oh what an amazing Father’s Day for you say that sounds heavenly is Hank Mo in the lawn you guys get him a little extender we he’d be he’d be perfect for it CU he’s just like pure power no yeah he might be a little rougher on the edges we’ll have to you know be extra careful with the edger but yeah definitely I I mean ever since the incident he’s probably not allowed to hold one of those but it would cut the time in half it would but also maybe some other things yeah 100% hockey season is still going the Stanley Cup hasn’t been awarded the draft is fast approaching and we are now firmly into the rumor mill where it’s not just speculation it’s speculation with a little flavor of substance added in as the nas rumors have heated up for Detroit folks welcome to the wing wheel podcast here to talk to you about all things Detroit Red Wings hockey the world of the NHL and lots more I’m one of your hosts r ran Hannah I’m Brad Chrisco and I’m Evan on this episode of the wing wheel podcast we’re going to be talking about those Nast rumors where he might be traded to and Detroit being around them which is notable as well as some other news of note for for players that Red Wings fans have been looking at across the league Chatfield signed in Carolina so that’s a right-handed defenseman off the board and more we’re going to get into our Prospect profile this episode which is a player that a lot of Red Wings fans have been looking at we’re not sure if he’ll be in range but there’s a possibility as well as some Prospect news and then we’ll get into NHL news the Stanley Cup Playoffs go on Edmonton forced a game five which sounds kind of pitiful but they did it in impressive fashion so who knows what might happen from there and other notes from across the NHL before we jump into overtime before all that I want to let you know that the winged wheel podcast is primarily supported by our patreon supporters patreon.com wheel podcast if you want to support the show you get access to some really great benefits like our patreon exclusive bonus overtime episodes which record right after these main ones we let loose have fun I usually stick some bloopers in there we tell stories we have thoughts with Evan yours is already prepped for today oh yeah you’ll hear about all the all the woes that have been going on in the the house where the studio lives which probably won’t be interesting but you know it’s a good time you also get access to our patreon exclusive Discord which is a fantastic Community additionally you’re entered into all of our giveaways automatically for example for the past two seasons we’ve given away two tickets to every Red Wings home game the vast majority going directly to our patreon supporters so again patreon.com wheel podcast if you want to support support the show go the extra mile and join the dubdub club the Red Wings want to add high-end Talent Mary Nas is high-end Talent that’s available it is all but confirmed as much as something can be confirmed unless they explicitly state it that he is not wanting to return to Carolina in need of a contract Carolina wants to trade him for a massive return as you do for any player who who has star potential and the Red Wings have been rumored to be one of the teams around it as reported by Frank serali so unsurprising that Detroit would be around this I mean a lot of times you just have to do some math in the NHL where you look at what teams need and what players are available and it’s also unsurprising because players of mar Nas’s caliber aren’t available you know every day of the week so what do you make of the news that the Red Wings are around on HS oh setad of goal tending he fills two of their biggest needs scoring and speed the Red Wings have lacked in those departments severely for a while now and even though we saw improvements on that this year they’re still a long way away in those two departments from cup Contender so he’s one of the faster transition players in the league and the fact that he has a scoring touch and you know cover years every he’s not just Darren Helm that’s really appealing to obviously the Red Wings but like you said it’s going to be everybody in the league players like this don’t come available all that often every time in the last couple years a player like this has come available we’ve sat here and said the Red Wings should be interested and the Red Wings have only gotten one of them because 90% of the league that can afford him is going to be interested so like everything in life it comes down to what’s the cost because obviously I would love Marty Nas on the Red Wings but at the right cost and I’m willing to overpay let’s be clear here the Red Wings do not have the luxury of getting picky in situations like this and fussing over an extra half million doar on the contract or an extra second round pick in the trade whatever it might be but yeah they it’s not surprising just getting a little confirmation is at least nice to know even though we could have all assumed Eiserman would be in on this well this sort of bidding war will be more difficult I think than what a lot of them would look like like for the Martyr one obviously he’s just a big ticket it would take a lot of assets but you know he’s a UFA whereas in this situation we’re dealing with an RFA who’s situation with the team has really soured and it’s hard to determine how many teams will be in on him so trying to find that sweet spot on value and price and cost is going to be really difficult for Detroit they’re really going to have to do an excellent job of sort of reading the room sort of flushing out what the the true buyers are in this market and who are just kind of throwing stuff out there to to sabotage the other teams it’ll be really interesting to see how this plays out because it’s going to be difficult to really you know feel like you won in this transaction there’s also the sense that Carolina’s basically you don’t want to say that they’re talking out both sides of their mouths here I think they’re doing what any other team would do when they are losing a player that they don’t want to lose but trying to make the most of it they want the assets to return that say you know Martin HS is a star player or at the very least will definitely be a star player so we want the asset to represent that but if you also look at how they handled him a big thing is Nas says you know he can be doing more but he doesn’t like his deployment and Carolina wasn’t exactly you know over the moon about what they saw from him and that’s why he didn’t earn a bigger role and he hasn’t Bud into the you know star or more than they wanted from him so far so they’re not doing anything untoward but there is a sense of are you really going to pay a premium to then have to pay a premium in terms of contract to get Martin Nas when Carolina a very strong team has kind of demonstrated that there is risk that this is you know a 50 to 60 point player is all he is and that’s not nothing like that’s something that’s very good but you don’t pay out the nose for that is is the point that I think teams have to be wary of yeah but there’s a couple signs here that at least point in a positive direction if you’re a team interested in acquiring him the first is there’s been a lot of talk about he’s just not a stylistic fit with what Carolina’s trying to do over there which means you put him in a different system that’s a little more conducive to his skill set maybe it’ll work out maybe it won’t but it’s at least a reason for optimism and two you saw the list of teams that were interested that sahali put out there there was a lot of them kicking around and you have to think given that he’s an RFA his agent has made these teams aware of what at least his rough contract demands are going to be well you’re not allowed to do that you know they would never never in a million years okay let’s just yeah we need to get make that clear yes it’s all hypothetical texts that are being exchanged about you know future problems but it hasn’t seemed to scare way too many teams which if it was completely reasonable you’d have to assume you know a lot of teams would be like okay well uh good luck with that we’re not interested it could still be the case and you know maybe teams are confident they can knock it down a few bucks who knows you’ll never know for sure but oh you thought I said four million I actually said 40 million but either way it’s it’s at least something to take note of in a scenario where not a lot of information is out there for what it’s worth I do think there is more than HS than what we’ve seen I don’t think the concerns about you know what we’ve seen so far by age 25 you know not being star superstar talent I don’t think those are unfounded concerns I do think he can and should likely be more than the player he was last season which was 53 points in 77 games that would make him like fourth in scoring on the Red Wings almost but then again what do you want to pay for that because you then beg the question of what guys can you get in the future what’s your salary structure can look look like as you’ve both alluded to so I don’t know I I’m slowly over time and I’ve talked about this the last few episodes coming to the mind of you don’t pass up on acquiring star Talent OR really good talent just because it’s not the perfect fit at the perfect time or it’s not the perfect amount of risk that you want I’m not saying swing on anyone but if you and your team in terms of analyzing this say yep yes we think this is the guy that’s going to make our team better and he’s the best player available to to acquire on the market via trade or free agency or what have you then I I kind of go back to Brad’s first point which is you pay a little extra in a trade or you pay a little extra in a contract to get it done you don’t go crazy because I I think nature ass isn’t like Superstar game breaker level but this is It’s the the the the break it tier I think that’s a good comparison it’s the same kind of impact that he could have yeah I’ve seen the argument online that if he’s not not you don’t think he’s going to be a superstar why are you bothering my answer to that is hypothetical do you think the brink it l and Raymond is or is close to being a cup caliber first line take your most optimistic view here most optimistic view is that it could be but that you have to assume the team behind them is very very good okay so if that’s your first line do they have a single second line caliber forward on the team rate is Patrick Kan back as of right yeah as of right now he’s an unrestricted free agent so no cup caliber second line you’re not really looking at a lot of optimistic names it start it starts to stretch out quite a bit pan isn’t it anymore Comer has done an admirable job filling in in absence of anyone else but if you’re winning a cup he can’t be your second line Center unless you have like a Nathan McKinnon on your first line which isn’t going to happen for the Red Wings we know that if Patrick Kane’s not back there’s nobody on that Wing Danielson could be a second liner I think he could be a second line Center that’s probably the only forward in their system right now who is likely to meet that criteria yeah you can’t afford to pass up on a Martin NHS when they become available you might get opid and it might not be worth it there is a line there I’m not saying you have to go get him at all costs obviously there is a line where you’re like this is unreasonable you’re making the franchise worse by making that trade but anything under that line you have to do it you have to because what else Carter merer sure but probably not Marco Casper sure but probably not whoever they pick at 15 maybe well you might have to make some of these players and assets available to get this deal done oh of the three players I named there you’re not getting Marty H ass without giving them one or two of those assets so it’s the catch2 but again it’s an upgrade based projection right we sat here and we’ve had how many conversations the last two months what are the odds of 15th overall pick becomes a second liner good but far from a guarantee and will they be a second liner to the caliber of Martin HS you have to be supremely confident in your scouting department when making that type of decision obviously age contract all that factors in which is why when we’ve had these conversations in the past couple months have aired towards keeping that particular pick but concessions are going to have to be made projections are going to have to be made and yeah overpayments are probably going to have to be made whether or not it’s Martin HS some point down the line the Red Wings need to acquire players of his caliber if not better and I promise you you’re not going to like the acquisition cost yeah that the last two points you made I think are exactly the thinking I have right now Lo though I am to agree with you completely on anything it’s you have to go for it and if they get out bit it’s okay because it doesn’t have to be Marty Nas it’s just the overall principle is the position the Red Wings are in you want to continue to improve they did a lot last year they can do a lot this upcoming year just on progress of the the players that they have but you still need to take another step watch these Stanley Cup playoffs look at those teams and say are the Red Wings close are the Red Wings close and can the Red Wings get there are two different things and you can see they can get there but you need to start adding guys of the right caliber so yeah I I fully agree you go for n if you’re you and your pro scouting team feel that he’s a fit and if you get out bid you get out bid because you don’t go absolutely ballistic and trade everything you have but you have to start going for those guys so it it it all does kind of add up may also help resolve the rookie Log Jam as well if you move out of if you’re like this guy you know might not be a Surefire tent at the NHL that’s when you got to take a serious look at who they are as assets and and see if you can make those types of Trades and I think it might solve some problems moving them that’s it’s the drum I’ve been banging for a little while now which is not all these guys are going to make it you’re right you have a glut of them based on the past however many years of rebuilding and potential is worth more than what they’re likely going to turn out to be on average and I don’t mean for any individual player you can you can’t make that projection for sure but on average not all of them are going to work out but a lot of them still have a lot of potential so it’s essentially like it’s darts right you’re giving them more darts to throw but who’s to say that it’s going to be a bullseye terrible analogy but I’ve had a rough 48 Hours you guys take it away but yeah to continue your point how many prospects do the Red Wings have in their system right now that you are fully confident are going to be full-time Red Wings I I will go Danielson Casper Maser Johansson Sandy pel kosa the only do not trade for me is Danielson Sandy pela kosa yeah and a even Augustine I would include in that yeah so I that’s six names of those six how many are you confident are going to be top six top 4 d one maybe two and yeah you want to look at any individual player and say you’re confident but the the averages dictate that it’s just not going to shake out that way it could that’d be awesome every once in a while you have a prospect that explodes maybe five years we’re talking about Carter maser’s the second coming of Zack Heyman possible severely unlikely most likely scenario right now a good depth scoring third liner Marco Casper most likely path right now based on what we’ve seen good 200 foot all situations third line Center Danielson has shown the scoring upside maybe he can be the second line Center sandine pelica should be able to play a depth defense role but Excel on the power play is any of those better than Ness right like that’s the scenario right now and that’s not even factoring in what the percentages are of them actually getting there or exceeding it and that to to stipulate what the other side of the argument would be is you’re giving up the first seven years of cheap play and development 100% so you you take that all into account but the point stands yeah cuz obviously is value to getting three years of Nate Danielson at $975,000 or whatever that is and then whatever the second contract comes in and etc etc we all understand that you’re basically trading the cap flexibility for the certainty of the player yeah that is the Marty Nas conversation we’ll see where that one goes the Red Wings and a lot of other teams will be around it so you know far from a certainty but definitely an intriguing one Speaking of Carolina J Chatfield is one of the more popular targets for Red Wings fans to consider how to plug up that right side defense position he resigned in Carolina for I think a little bit of a term rich but very reasonable threeyear $3 million per year contract so you’re telling me they’re not going to want Justin Hall in the Ness trade somehow I think the very intelligent Eric Tuli Congratulations by the way to tulsky on unsurprisingly but welld deserved being hired as GM in Carolina and man pant and sha unexpected by whom they are bringing in they’re as it’s as it was very fairly put they’re lapping us they now have a their their assistant GM total went up by one last episode which is really good because it went down by one because one of them got upgraded to a GM they have brought in some really great interviews go check them out but yeah jayen Chatfield off the board and you know what it’s funny you talk to people who watch Chatfield and they’re like he is being hyped up too much a great player but he’s good in his depth role he’s just really effective in Carolina system he fits there good player but he’s not going to be a you know top three minutes guy on your team there’s other people saying this guy is the real deal Carolina doesn’t get as far as they do without him and he can emerge in a big way on a different team so I I think that price that you saw is ultimately very fair and with his strong play he earned himself three years of security what I took from that is a really strong indication of what the defense Market’s going to look like come unrestricted for agency I mean Carolina definitely took an educated guess and and chatfield’s agents surely don’t know how the market is yet they’re not allowed to talk yet but that’s a good point yeah but it’s it’s a good indication that if he’s willing to stay and usually RFA stay at a bit of a discount because everybody knows you get more in Ufa because you get more biders etc etc it it could be tough out there for teams looking for a right side defenseman it’s not a bad inference to make like it could be a couple different things I would just be surprised if the Market’s weak like it’s such a the Cap’s going up and it’s such an important position I don’t know I tend to think that this is just it’s a good fit in Carolina and he likes it there I don’t know it’s hard to say for sure but I really think based on all indications before this that this was going to be a hot market for defenseman yeah it was a volume thing you were hoping there were enough out there that someone might sneak through the cracks you can get that value signing like eisman’s had a few signings like that over the past couple years I’m less optimistic that’s going to happen this time around yeah elsewhere we mentioned it last episode in I think it was the patreon exclusive overtime Evan and I but Patrick l is Seeking a trade from Columbus both parties seem to be okay with moving on working on a trade somewhere it is a complicated one though because L has quite a bit of money left on his contract for two more years and I know it’s quite a popular sentiment like L is a very effective player when he’s on but $8.7 million a year for two more seasons is a lot of money so I mean Columbus is going to want to find a solution but they are going to have to retain a ton probably or you don’t really know where this is going to go unless he goes to one of those teams like Utah or San Jose or something and that’s the fit there but you’ve seen some Red Wings fans ask the question as well like we said about Nas yes the option should be you are interested at the right cost and that’s a way bigger question at the right cost like you need so much retention to make that work yeah with retention trade value all that stuff but it is worth pointing out before I think Lon got injured and then went on leave last year he was scoring at a 30s something goal Pace he hasn’t lost the goal scoring touch he’s just had so much going on he’s always had that inconsistency about him but so is Alex to Brink it and de brinka can’t score like l l is one of those guys when he’s on arguably the best goal scorer in the league but we haven’t seen that as much in recent years as we did in previous years but if you’re Detroit in the middle of a rebuild and you know you’ve had line a struggle with injuries and mental health if he can find a place to be happy which could be Detroit you got two years to find it out man that could be a serious weapon and again circling back to team that struggles to score conversation finds Elite goal score I think it’s worth the gamble again at the right cost do I want him at 8.7 right now with all the stuff he has going on no of course not do I think the Red Wings are going to be super keen on this after what happened with Verana no obviously I think they’re probably not going to be but it’s worth exploring at least because if Columbus is asking a second round pick and they’re willing to retain $2 million you’re of your mind if you don’t do that but I think the cost will be higher and I don’t think Columbus will want to retain that much but I digress if Columbus is willing to be reasonable on it but then you’d think the lineup to get Patrick l would be massive but if they’re reasonable or have something reasonable to offer or they’re they’re willing to re retain based on what the Red Wings would want to give them in terms of assets then yeah Patrick l would obviously be a good addition no there there’s one person in the NHL who can shoot better than him and it’s Austin Matthews you think he’s that good of a shooter his release is dare I say generational I would say that I I would confidently say his release is gener generational it’s crazy you’re this it’s a summertime you can say whatever you want man hell yeah go wild I’m with Evan if we’re just talking straight release anywhere in the offensive zone line a might have the best shot in the NHL accuracy power and it it might be him and Matthews and on some days Matthews is number two I didn’t even I didn’t even think of Verana last time when we had this conversation so I think there’s probably a lot of scar tissue for the Red Wings organization when it comes to a situation like this obviously it’s not Apple to the apples everyone’s personal situation is different the context is massive yes yeah yeah it’s worth pointing out so yeah you got to do your due diligence and see what sort of offer columb would be willing to listen to but yeah the Red Wings aren’t in the position to not make these types of inquiries inquiries yeah so the one thing that’s probably worth keeping in mind and just because you brought it up I did like that you brought it up the lineup for suters for line is not going to be anywhere close to what it is for NS the cost acquisition is going to be much lower than it is for NHS if you think you are the organization that can bring back the we’ll call him we’ll call it Prime Patrick l cuz age-wise he’s still very much in it again we haven’t seen it in a couple years it’s kind of like the you know we’re going to save a few bucks here and we’re gambling a little more but if it pays off it pays off big and if you get him back he’s better than NS at least in terms of an offense side of things as Ness is right now yes correct I don’t know which I would probably prefer an HS just because of the C of it but yeah if if Carolina’s asking like three premium assets and Columbus is like we’ll only retain like a mill but you can have him for basically nothing yeah I’d rather do that it’s all about that one is is a complicated one it’s it’s like drafting a problematic player if you get past the hurdles of like you just talk to the agent talk to the team figure out you know is this legitimately just you need a changes scenery like and that’s a hard thing like talking heads on a podcast or on a network show or whatever unless they know specifically like all the finer details you’ll never be able to unearth that so this is all with the assumption that you evaluate and you say yep the the person can be a fit on this team then yeah I fully agree Brad that’s a that’s a risk that’s worth taking because it’s not a little bit of money but with the right amount of retention it’s two years and there’s a lot to potentially uncover there and you know what you I was almost scared when I look up Patrick M’s age because I was like oh is this one of those things where he’s 33 and I’m just time has passed way quicker than I thought he’s 26 years old he in the prime so if if you can get that going then that’s a big boost that could come potentially cheap it’s a big if big potentially but unless you’re getting these players in in the draft or in a blockbuster trade where you’re you’re not getting a Patrick Lon in the draft at this point if you’re the Red Wings Cole iserman might slip to 15 not very likely but you can’t Bank on it but I Cole iserman had his best was never line at his best even going into the draft they were not the same and it’s probably worth mentioning too cuz you hear all the behind the- scenes issues with L this is not a pier Luke dub Trevor Connelly thing from all accounts Patrick l is very well-liked like he he’s he’s a good dude and it’s not that people dislike the guy but obviously whatever he’s got going on creates the issues for him and he gets in his own head and the consistency issues etc etc so not all quote unquote issues behind the scenes are the same yeah as Evan said it’s not Apples to Apples if we have another player we want to talk about I am somewhat intrigued what your guys thoughts are on Capo well they just signed him to the the small one-year deal well that’s why I’m interested in what you guys think because that’s nothing and do I really think kaako has lived up to his draft stock absolutely not but is he past the point of reclamation project so I have one thought on kokako in regards to the Red Wings do I think he’s going to get a lot better than what he is now no okay then I’m not interested do I think there’s a chance sure but like if he’s what like a 20 30 point guy now I think the chance is ah maybe he’s a 40o guy do I think a consistent 35 to 40 point forward is going to open perform a midc round pick yeah 99 out of 100 times so if that’s all the acquisition cost is 100% you do it I don’t know if i’ I’d call it 99 out of 100 but it I think on average it would but you got think because the whole Benchmark the 44% of second round picks that become nhlers is not 40 point nhlers it’s just they play 200 games it’s a very low bar to clear right and yeah that’s very heavily weighted towards the front half of the second round and again I know the percentages aren’t the exact same anymore but tell me a mid second round pick turns into a 30 to 40 point forward all that often n look at all the Red Wings recent midc round picks I was going to say we could just trade Brady Cleveland and call it a day it really just depends on what New York wants to do and you look at what happened left for year you’re like y you wish you could acquire him because you know there’s Talent there and they kept him and it turns out there was a lot more Talent there and you might see him emerge even more kaako gives me more pause but I don’t know there’s es and flows to both of those guys and we’ve talked about the two of them a lot how much of this is them and how much of this is the system and at least for laer some of it was the system for kokako it’s not as certain but again unless you’re getting your guys in free agency or unless you’re getting them in a blockbuster deal where you’re trading for a certain player you have to assume risk if you’re trying to unearth Talent at a less than premium price so that’s that is what it is I couldn’t imag I couldn’t imagine the price on kako has is any low well I mean maybe in one year it could be lower but as of right now it’s pretty low you ready for 12 points in 72 games oh yeah bring it on okay that is a lot of talk about different players who could be red wings so why don’t we take a break here and come back and talk about more players who could be Red Wings in terms of draft prospect profiles but first we want to let you know that this episode of the wind wheel podcast is proudly brought to you by laat Blue Light created in 1983 this premium light Canadian pilzer is a delicately balanced beer brewed with Cascade hops and a blend of malt it’s fresh crisp and brewed to the highest quality standards there’s a little bit of Canadian kindness in every sip of laat blue light how did it get in there they’re Canadian that’s how you can spread the love yourself by sharing a laat and when you do share a labat you’re not just sharing a beer you’re sharing an experience that’ll pair with anything from hockey to a ho down so next time you’re watching a hockey with your buds be sure to share a Le Bat because while you might not all root for the same team although we on this podcast do hope you’re rooting for the Red Wings you can all enjoy a laat blue light we honestly love going to games in Detroit and seeing leat being the beer that fans clamor for all over the arena it’s a reliable beer and great to have in your hand when celebrating a goal so head to the link in the description of this episode or the one you see on your screen to find leat in stores near you today you must be 21 or older and as always enjoy responsibly okay welcome back as we just got finished waxing poetic about how it’s inevitable that Rory is going to blow it in a major that’s rough and now I don’t feel as bad about missing my I said I don’t feel bad about missing my four-footer for Birdie the other day that’s an expensive mpot fer Rory plus Legacy involved there that shot of him sitting in the tent is how we look after breaking news comes after we’ve already recorded 45 minutes of podcast that’s exactly the look I have okay let’s talk hockey let’s talk NHL draft prospects this is a player who has been around the conversation for the Red Wings for a long time and is of keen interest and we wonder if he’s even going to be there consta helenius Center out of Finland highly talented and spoiler alert for my opinion the more I watch of him the more I do like him questions about you know size is he going to be able to play this way at the NHL level but overall thinks the game well can be an offensive talent that if it translate to the NHL level at a positional premium could be a really high pick so what do you think of constant helenius well his skating’s okay his shots okay he’s not very big playing in a men’s league and yet if he’s there at 15 feel like the Red Wings are going to be sprinting up to the stage to pick him because he plays center and he’s highly competitive really good hands and for context in Scott Wheeler’s draft superlatives where he ranks like each trait and then the players he has consta helenius ranked number one for smartest player in the draft high high hockey IQ the hardest thing to teach someone argue you can’t teach hey you guys know what I like in a hockey player the smarter they are the more I am all in because of that fact you can’t teach it you look at the Mark stones and the Patrice bons of the world they can’t skate And yet they are top 10 20 players in the league for good chunks to their career Mark Stone has a career part of his his career that he’s like famous for is stealing pucks yeah is that smart and you factor in a really high compete level and really good hands yeah I’m I’m not going to say I’m all in on him because there’s lots of players in in the range that Detroit is going to be picking that I like but man it would be at least a little disappointing if they don’t pick him if he’s available yeah I’m not super high on Conant helenius you watch him is has very you know is going to sound bad average skills for someone going in the first round I thought his agility and evasiveness is is really really good top end speed’s just okay shot okay playmaking okay you know he’s a smaller guy there were a lot of opportunities or moments where he got you know sort of out positioned in the defensive Zone yeah he thinks the game really well and that will take you a long way with just having you know very middleof the road ability at the NHL level so I don’t know maybe I’m just a little low on him I haven’t you know totally been impressed watching him but I think you could go a lot worse at 15 overall if he’s available well one thing that kind of eases my mind on him to kind of compare two prospects here it’s my number one concern for one Prospect and it eases my mind with lenus is he put up very good numbers very good stats in the top finish League this year in the Le I think I saw something like for points per game as a draft eligible finish player he was third all time in points per game yeah very good production and he’s a true draft eligible this year he’s not a late birthday whereas you compare to what Bren negard did in the alen scone a lesser league as a year older late birthday it eases my mind on helenus because he did more in a tougher League yeah there’s there’s some conversations that have been happening where you see what the discourse is about helenius and there seems to be some that he has you know limited offensive upside and I I just I can’t agree with that I know we’ve had some conversations in our group chat or they’ve been happening to the same effect I think he does have high-end upside is it a guarantee I would wouldn’t say it’s a guarantee for the reasons that you guys stated otherwise he’d be you know going top 10 but yeah I see the hockey IQ there I see the the vision and the ability to anticipate and I do I do think he has I I’m higher on his playmaking than maybe you are Evan I’ve already seen enough of it where I’m like it’s a demonstration of that Vision I think the offense is there the size is a question for sure because how much of the positional premium is going to translate if he’s not big enough to play at that position it’s harder for a guy of that size there’s no other way around it but still I think he has a really good chance to come in and make an impact down the middle and if you can get that at pick 15 or at least the opportunity for it you sprint to the stage depending on who else is there there are going to be other guys but you know if the Red Wings really like mbn and helenius and iserman and one other guy there’s a good chance that only one of those is available at best so he’s kind of the the kind of player where I’m like the more I watch him the more I really like his game yes there’s questions about it but at the end of the day I also think he’s just going to go higher than 15 because of the the hockey IQ and the positional premium and he shoots right yeah he it’s the right shot too people often forget that but if you’re looking for a tiebreaker that sometimes happens on the draft floor with GMS and scouting teams too he reminds me stylistically a lot of Sebastian AO the good one you know Sebastian AO doesn’t like totally impress me when I watch him but then his counting stats and his Advanced metrics are really good so you know maybe this is just another you know I need to peel back the layers a little bit more on Conant laneous and and watch more but yeah like I said I think you could go a lot worse at 15 than him maybe it’s just recency bias is Anton londell a fair comparison that was a guy I thought about as well yeah I I just can’t help but think that people think finish Center antton londell and thus that’s what leads people to think oh limited high-end upside full allaround you know smart Center like they they do fit the same profile obviously they’re not the same player I like helenus is bottom line skill more than I liked londell’s going into the draft obviously lundell I think is bigger but and was probably a more complete player coming in yeah but again where the Red Wings are I’m going to put my lean to the skill in a tiebreaker so yeah helenus is an interesting one but I agree with what you said pretty show Brad He’s he’s scream’s going to be off the board to me if he was a Winger like a true and true Winger guaranteed then I think probably he’d be there at 15 but the fact that he even could be a center makes me think tell me that guy doesn’t scream Minnesota Wild a little bit yeah just seems like the type like a put him behind y Eric’s neck and they’re like there it’s the same guy we’ll just parade them out one after another and while we’re talking about prospects Michael branz nard is quoted as saying he’s talked the most with teams like Chicago Calgary and Detroit was one of them named thoroughly unsurprising one of the better if not you know one of the best players in Detroit’s potential range fits the mold of what Detroit is looking for and whether you’re low on him or high on him that range is still tight I think I’m higher on him for example that you are Brad and both of us have said we’d be very very very happy walking away if Detroit took him this is where I’m at I really like him I like him a lot I’m going to be upset if we pick him just from an entertainment standpoint because the Red Wings are getting so damn predictable this will be the third year in a row where we’ve basically called the shot because like you were I I agreed with you a bit that he seemed like the Red Wings type but you were all in on the Red Wings taking they were going to take Danielson at nine last year yeah we not so subtly completely shifted our conversations a month leading into the 2022 draft around Marco Casper cuz we’re like there’s no way we have to we have to give more coverage this guy cuz we know it’s going to happen it’s it’s coming so if we go 3 years in a row where everybody and it’s not that we’re that smart where a lot of people lock in on one guy for the Red Wings and then they take him come on throw for a GM that’s so unpredictable they sure are predictable with some things Brad you’re asking the monkey pot of curl right now I just I warn you be careful I I know I know that’s why I preface it by saying I’d be happy if we picked him and I really like the player but like Eiserman in his first draft through the biggest curveball we’ve maybe seen in the draft in 10 years with mider and then it’s you kind of knew everyone from that on John mustard at 15th overall come on down he’s actually an intriguing Prospect for the second round we we’ll talk about him I can’t wait to see what goalie they’re going to reach no I’m kidding I think you made the same joke last episode I don’t want I don’t have anything to do with this you’re starting to put some evil on us so I’ve got two names that if it’s not mbn and Eiserman goes back to his way off the board like didn’t see that one coming so there’s two defenseman that really strike me as an Eiserman type one of them I don’t think is going to make it to their pick which is soberg and again we’ve seen some connections to him and Detroit just because of the moider connections between the two EJ Emory oh he checks a lot of boxes for the wings and teams don’t make their decisions based on the combine but my god did that kid crush the combine so I’m not saying it’s going to happen but I just want it on record that I I can see the connections and if it happens this will be the one conversation I can Circle back to and goes see I’m not completely dumb his he yeah he is the one where his dad’s a former CFL linebacker yeah like the kid’s an athletic freak I don’t think the offense is there but for a 15th overall pick but we the Red Wings have a type let me tell you and he checks it that is draft prospects let’s move on to the Stanley Cup Playoffs Edmonton and Florida are going to game five since the last time we recorded Florida poured cold water on Edmonton’s attempted comeback after being down two games even though Edmonton for points in that game game three controlled play and they did have a little bit of a comeback at the end where It ultimately finished 4-3 Florida put them on the brink going up three nothing and then Edmonton came out and won 81 chasing Bovi in the process so thoughts on those two games and where the series is at let’s call it what it is does Edmonton have a chance it’s hockey so every team has a chance do they have a good one no I mean you could argue the Oilers have been the better team for three of the four games at a bare minimum two I think I probably do lean to three if you’re splitting hairs between the whole series but I mean I I really just wanted to go to Six cuz I want to see what that building is going to look like one more game in Edmonton oh my God first off they make a millionaire every single game with their 50/50s it’s like Alberta wide I think the last one was like the the winner took home8 million bucks for one game 50/50 it happens at CFL games all the time too it’s crazy it’s Bonkers rabid and for those who don’t know in Canada you don’t get taxed for Lottery winning so that is they they take home $8 million which is approximately like 54 American a million or eight 8 million jeez you can buy a compound in Edmonton with 8 million bucks you might be able to buy a used Toyota Corolla with 8 million bucks right now yeah literally I don’t I’m not not right now Ry Brad’s going through some car stuff no no went through yeah it’s over the notice how his pocket everyone’s been dealing with a bunch of [ __ ] lately figuratively and literally yeah I see that all that dust flying out of my wallet but yeah remember last episode how I opened and I said it’s all good now with the plumbing yeah let me tell you it was not narrator it was not all good most things occur in a Trilogy too don’t I know it anyhow anyhow I know one of the big talking points after the last two games is McDavid broke Gretzky’s single season playoff assist record and obviously that’s getting a lot of hype I don’t think that’s getting enough hype Conor McDavid broke a Wayne grety assist record I fully agree I I think well when you have to play 30 minutes a game like it’s inevitable imagine if this series was one game different I think that story would be through the roof but right now everyone is thinking is Edmonton going to even make this entertaining and that’s what’s putting a wet blanket on it if this series is 22 right now yeah everybody’s going is Conor McDavid having one of the greatest playoffs in hockey history four assists I think it’s even total points in a single playoff series The only players ahead of him right now on the list are Wayne Gretzky and Mario L yeah and how many records like that are it’s like grety Gretzky l l l Gretzky Lemieux and those are the like that’s the entire list of most points in a playoffs or most goals in a blah blah blah like those two guys alone because they just did it randomly eer is up there once and that’s it and to get your name in there that’s like transcending and all those records are between the years of 1981 and like 1992 Conor McDavid is doing this in 2024 again we talk about Conor McDavid a lot and I still I still will argue he’s underrated do you do you think he let’s say Florida puts him away in five or let’s say Florida does it in six is Conor McDavid deserving of the km yes absolutely yes you can have the whole debate of do you give it to the losing team yada yada Y which is fair I I completely understand he’s the best player in these playoffs full stop nobody’s close but for three games of the finals was at that level but he hasn’t been at that level the whole playoffs and obviously he had a really rough game for largely not his fault but still mcdavid’s been dominant the whole playoffs I like if the Florida Panthers had to go these entire playoffs with Anthony stolar I still think they’re in the finals are they up 3-1 obviously not if you take Conor McDavid off the Oilers do they get out of the first round so all I’m hearing is Edmonton is a bad team yes they are they’re they’re a team that papers over their issues with concrete and the concrete is Conor McDavid and Leon dry cidal not to take away from the other talented players but who would they be so Nan Hopkins okay yeah McDavid dry Sidle Newen Hopkins Evan Bard I don’t even know who the fifth player on the first Power Play unit is right now Zack Heyman and who deserves a ton of credit those five playing two minutes of every Power Play is like the whole reason they even made it this far and mcdavid’s the driver of that well the nice thing is when they practice their power play they only have to take five guys out of the rest of the practice everybody else just goes and does whatever else they do because they don’t need a second unit here’s my thing though I fully agree with you about the performance of Conor McDavid these playoffs agree or disagree Florida did a great job shutting him down to some degree for the first few games of the series no Brad Bradley now okay hold on I’m going to say I’m going to say yes I’m going to agree with you but I’m going to put a huge asterisk on it yes they did only because Sergey bosski is a Florida panther he was he was getting his Chan I think it’s not like they kept him out of the slot it’s not like they kept him from getting his chances they were there they just did not go in the net and he was a little guilty of overpassing because you could see at points bosski was in his head yeah but he was he was there he was where he needed to be with the puck and they just weren’t dropping and that’s my point sorry and that that is a very fair point because I didn’t phrase it correctly he did get held to one point in the first two games in the series and I think that’s important because I do think as much as I love barov I have all the time in the world for barov I think even after the last game Bovi is still the guy if Florida closes it out because okay he had one bad game McDavid got held to one point in two games and that is largely because of bosski so to me babski winning team you’re right they’re a much more complete team but I don’t know is what McDavid I just have a hard time not rewarding someone on the floorida Panthers if they if they close us out in five or six you know km is a two horse race it’s b brovsky or McDavid yeah I I actually agree at this point now that McDavid has that record it’s kind of unfairly push barkov out of the conversation even though he has just been clinical they do not have the balls to give it not to a Florida panther if they win at home no 100% 100% that Arena will burn to the ground the KMI will be smelted into its original material if it is not a Florida panther it’ll forever be lost to the State of Florida a lot of other things have been after all of the hyping of Alex barov at this point in the playoffs even if you think it’s right or wrong I still think Conor McDavid is three on the list he’s not three I he’s not but think of how think of all the story lines and how Sasha barov is now this like what one of the best players in the world I can count it in one hand and everyone’s talkinging about H bosski is essentially unbeatable minus last game I given how these things typically go I would be absolutely floored if it that goes back to Florida and they give Conor McDavid the consite think about how crazy that is before you before you rebuttal I agree with you that is not what’s gonna happen I’m talking about what not is I’m saying what should but I agree with you it’s not going to happen it’s never going to happen they H Edmonton has to at least get to game six for McDavid to even have a hope at actually winning the trophy but it is a two-horse race barov is a clear number three but he’s a distant number three because to your point and it’s correct Florida wins this cup it’s because bosski shut down McDavid in the playoffs if Edmonton makes this a series it’s because Conor McDavid went to an another ridiculous level which he did last game I think the NHL would happily do it and I don’t mean this against I I think it’s really cool to see another hockey Market emerging like Florida and Tampa Bay have been over the last little while like this is going to have a profound lasting effect on hockey in the state of Florida for years to come and we already saw this in California when Gretzky went there but this isn’t the same as the NHL going into Chicago or New York and giving the opposing team’s player the K SMI they’re going to want to promote Conor McDavid because he is the face of the league and I think the NHL absolutely though they don’t often have them they would absolutely have the balls to give Conor McDavid the con Smite because that that they don’t I think they do because I think that’s their dream scenario their dream scenario is that this goes to seven you’re going to do that may I remind you that Florida Panthers play in Florida so you’re going to give 20,000 people from Florida you’re 20,000 Florida men the newspapers will love it I think the NHL would happily do it I think they’d be thrilled for the opportunity to still make sure that Conor McDavid walks away with Hardware Conor McDavid might punt that thing into all the way to Cuba on the way out the arena shows it my my severe lacking of understanding of Florida’s geography mind you but I think the NHL would happily find a reason to give Conor McDavid and not like it wouldn’t be deserved because I think Brad’s point is very fair but they would happily find a reason to make sure Conor McDavid walks away with something because he’s the face of the league at the end of the day the reality of it is it’s like the writers that vote on the km anyway storylines are everything so how the next game go could be what sways it if if it’s a repeat of game one it’s going to be unanimous for bosski because oh my God he did it again he shut them out Edmonton could have won the series 4-1 because of how the games went but here they are in five Florida winning of course it’s babowski or if the Oilers win the next game 53 mcdavid’s got another four points at that point it doesn’t matter what happens in game six it’s going to be McDavid so storylines are everything narratives as much as people don’t want to believe it will play into this I just looked at all the betting websites that I could find very quickly only oh never mind and it just supports my argument so it’s even better so I will definitely be telling you guys I’m impressed that you were going to tell us anyways uh yeah believe it or not uh Conor McDavid is third on all those lists third that’s that’s wrong and bad but Evan Bard is plus 13,000 so if EV isn’t he like third in playoff scoring I don’t think that’s getting talked about enough he scores six goals over the next three games and Edmonton wins and three of those are like overtime winners then yeah I bushards in the conversation I you’re right though how the next I mean minimum one game goes if the next game goes Conor McDavid another four or five points he’s the the highlight of the game and then game six is this like long drawn out triple overtime thing Conor McDavid scores the winner then in my mind your argument moves to be incorrect no matter what the end result is well they we in game seven which we all hope for I don’t because I don’t want to be wrong now well that’s the thing if Florida wins their next game I’m correct I called Florida five 100% but I still want seven because no one like I’m happy he didn’t go to a sleep that would have sucked that would what a wet like it oh I guess the NHL for neutral fans no you just care about being the most right yeah yeah I’m good we’re not also talking about the other historic thing that’s happening right now in the Stanley Cup finals and that’s darn El’s re Racing for the plus minus record oh my God you know what all the criticisms of Darnell nurse that are very fair because he’s overpaid and I obviously everyone’s playing hurt right now but obviously his injuries a little bit more than most are you really going to nail him for plus minus when his team safe percentage from their goalies has been so bad Stuart Skinner was lights out for about at least two rounds worth of hockey yeah but he had a lot of like Stuart Skinner isn’t perfect every game buddy the dash next to Darnell nurse’s name is so impressive Rory maroy needs to take notes is he not that’s killer man is Skinner’s numbers bad because Darnell nurse is on the isce I think they are coexisting with one another it’s been a a good Stanley Cup Final I hope it keeps going it it really like interesting when Edmonton said like we we know we have the game to beat them it’s just what it was for the first three games is you’re playing the buz saw that’s Florida and when you manage to out play them you then get the absolute freak that is bosski and net which is unfair because usually teams have one or the other but they persisted and they broke through and if you break bosi then you can break the team so it’s very unlikely that they’re going to win four straight but I think they have a really good chance to make it at least to game six or game seven we’ll find out soon elsewhere in the NHL we mentioned uh tulsky in Carolina got hired as the GM so congratulations to him friend of the winged wheel podcast Network as he has appeared on expected by whom go listen to that episode and speaking of expected by whom what a fantastic interview they had with the Dallas Stars assistant GM Mark jenko which was outstanding timely with the whole cap friendly thing going on and they talked about the you know Vegas situation and and what they felt about you know working with the cap that way whether it’s gaming the cap or not like really really great interview some of the best insights I’ve ever heard on a podcast and it’s right from Dallas Stars assistant GM and there’s a Red Wings tie in there too because he talks a lot about Jim nil who has won his second straight GM of the Year award which is well deserved over there so make sure you check out expected by whom give him a follow And subscribe on YouTube as well okay let’s jump into overtime on this episode of the wi wheel podcast overtime is brought to you by our patreon supporters patreon.com wire podcast the Discord the bonus episodes the giveaways all of that lots more you you allow us to support the Jamie Daniels Foundation through events like Wing wheel podcast nights in partnership with the Detroit Red Wings and the Grand Rapids Griffins you also allow us to produce content like expected by whom and you allow this show to keep going over the offseason get bigger and better run live streams during the draft and lots more so again patreon.com wied wheel podcast questions from our patrons Jack Mullen says do you think danielson’s absolute highest ceiling could be comparable to barkov absolutely not God I wish Nate danielson’s absolute holy hell can’t believe how well this is gone ceiling is LIN like that’s like oh my God 110% of what we expected if you’re saying like the 0.0 whatever percent likelihood that he could turn into barkov yeah sure why not and any guy could turn into any guy would you qualify it as anything higher than that no like it depends on how infinitism small of a chance you’re talking about here like sure I’d sure be happy that’d be great the percentage of Danielson turning into Lin is sub one% right oh I wouldn’t call it sub one like what’s the max five that’s that’d be the max to me yeah it’s and this is like a Fool’s error and try to put a number on development like this but it it just goes to show you like if you thought there was any higher of a chance in that that he turns into barov he’s not going barov went second right yes he’s not going where the Red Wings took him Danielson got taken ninth and most people around the scouting World thought it was a reach at the time so do with that information what you will barkoff theme going on right now datsuk dangler 13 says what is your favorite datsuk highlight and is barkov the current equivalent of datsuk no datsuk doesn’t have what made datsuk special is he was a mix of like kovalev and barkov yeah barov doesn’t bar highlight reels impressive but very impressive but not to the like oh my God he’s just murdering people with the hockey puck that datsuk was he might be the closest though like the guy who can play defense but also has like the the wicked offensive abilities and sick hands it might be him they’re not in the same category but very different stylistically if you want to go into details but in terms of like impacts at both ends of the ice then yes yeah I don’t hate that comparison as much as I did initially give wman the heart says would Marner Lin Raymond be a top five top line in the NHL Raymond Marner Lin I think of very well could be yeah why not top five so trying to run through so they wouldn’t match Colorado’s they wouldn’t match Edmonton’s I’d argue that’s probably not quite at Florida’s Dallas I’d put them there put them there with Dallas if you mean like on paper probably in and around if you mean how they can be performing yeah absolutely obviously you need to we’re we’re doing a hypothetical versus realized chemistry yeah David Johnson says my first time on patreon David thank you so much for joining the dubdub club and welcome to the show says my question is how much does Stevie have to overpay to get free agents to come here I don’t know the cop contract is not ideal but until Kane decided on Detroit it wasn’t a destination for free agents currently also Evan what kind of bike was that in the background during the videos shot from home you have a do you even know the kind of bike this yeah I do I don’t want to say it because then people are going to Google it and then we’re going to have all the [ __ ] start up again what do you mean what’s well like people will just Anno it was $9,000 they’ll reach out to me on in uh Twitter and I won’t read it and oh so you want to be left alone yes oh everyone leave poor EV I also want to be a social media influencer so you’re really bad at it like me and follow me but don’t ask me questions I’m tired yeah that’s right I you know what David I’m going to ask Evan’s wife and she’s going to tell me and I’ll message you the she will not tell you yes she will why not do not do that you know she will do not do that I it depends on the player de Brink it you know not that he came in cheap but he wanted to come to Detroit and players who are from the Michigan area they want to come to Detroit Detroit’s also like they’re now way less of a it’s way less of a problem of them not being a destination because they’re starting to show success again and it’s one of the Premier hockey markets in the NHL but if they’re biding against teams who are closer to the cup which is always a risk they’ll have to do that with Kane probably then you’re overpaying it’s less about money it’s more about term you usually have to throw an extra year for example if you want to know specifics that that’s what it seems like to me and for me this is even more reason why you need to resign Patrick Kane because guys clearly want to play with him he’s one of the best players of all time he is a selling point to Detroit which should in theory help lower that price it would take to bring these guys here Matt says assuming other teams don’t just go wild for positional need is there anything that would concern you if a top 10 guy unexpectedly Falls to Detroit spot this year are there certain traits you begin to question first asking for a friend who was pumped when we got Zena at six lots of friends yeah So based on who’s supposed to go in the top 10 right now no cuz the guys who you’re talking about are already you’re seeing them outside the top 10 in mock drafts and rankings a lot you’re Cole eans of the world where the upside is obvious but the risks are also obvious you know apparently the Medicals on Kaden Lindstrom came back good so he’s not getting of the top 10 man if a Berkeley cat gets out of the top 10 you can’t tell me that’s for any other reason than he’s like 5 foot 10 it’s un you’re sprinting for to the stage for Berkeley cat in my mind if he gets over to the top 10 I’m calling every team picking from 11 to 14 until someone says yes and there seem to be a couple around there who are trading their picks too so could be bad interviews too yeah yeah you know what I really wish there was more insights into the interview process it it will never happen this way too but I think in the NFL for example you just because there bigger Personalities in the NFL but you get so much more insights into this guy really impressed Scouts in interviews like this is the kind of you know person he is this is what he brought up in his interviews you seem to there seems to be a fly in the wall this coach took off his shirt in the interview was it Pete Carrol who took off his shirt couldn’t tell you now it’s concerning that I’m the only one who knows this but I I’ll go on and in the NHL it’s you know once every 10 years we get yeah Steve Eisman ask this guy if he smokes weed they be like didn’t someone recently asked was like if you were in the if you were in the war would you be a medic a pilot or a sniper like what kind of question is that I’d be a tugboat maybe it’s just a guy who’s like really into Logistics officer if I may say myself i’ work in the commissary although there was one thing that got me on maybe Pro defense pick at 15 I was listening to Max and Corey on their podcast and Cory was talking about how uh ston soberg was getting interviewed and obviously he got this from a source I’m assuming but I guess they asked him a question who do you think’s going to draft you and he just looked back at him and said I think I think you are immediate fan I’m hired holy [ __ ] can he do that you can’t fire me all right let’s wrap up this episode of the wind wheel podcast I need to curl up and cry and anticipate the plumbers budget for tomorrow thank you all so very much for tuning in we really really appreciate it this offseason is now starting to ramp up which is going to be fun I know we have differ opinions but I hope that the next time we record there’s still staining C playoffs going on but we’ll see thank you all again so much for tuning in thank you to La bat blue light for sponsoring this episode of the wind wheel podcast and thank you to all of our patreon supporters we couldn’t do it without you patreon.com wheel podcast if you 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Martin Necas trade rumors are swirling, and Steve Yzerman’s Detroit Red Wings are in the mix…

Tune in as we start by analyzing the Necas rumors, whether he’d be a fit in Hockeytown, what the Red Wings would have to give up to add him to the core of Dylan Larkin, Moritz Seider, Lucas Raymond, Alex DeBrincat, Simon Edvinsson, & others, how he would affect other free agents like Patrick Kane, & lots more (3:00). Also, notes on Jalen Chatfield, whether Patrik Laine would be a good trade target, Kappo Kakko’s chances of being revived elsewhere, & more (17:25).

After that, our 2024 NHL Draft Prospect Profile on Konsta Helenius, as well as news on Michael Brandsegg-Nygard and the Red Wings (31:35).

Finally, a Stanley Cup Final update, including Connor McDavid breaking a Wayne Gretzky record, Bobrovsky, Barkov, and McDavid’s cases for the Conn Smythe, as well as congratulating Eric Tulsky (friend of Expected by Whom) on becoming GM of the Carolina Hurricanes, & lots more (42:00) before we take your questions and comments during our Overtime segment (56:40) – enjoy!

Head over to wingedwheelpodcast.com to find all the ways to listen, how to support the show, and so much more!

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Thank you for making us the biggest Detroit Red Wings podcast on the air! #RedWings #LGRW

Website: https://www.wingedwheelpodcast.com

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/wingedwheelpodcast

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/WingedWheelPod (Check out the bio to follow the hosts!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wingedwheelpodcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wingedwheelpodcast

Listen on…

Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/winged-wheel-podcast/id969768868

Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLmZlZWRidXJuZXIuY29tL1dpbmdlZFdoZWVsUG9kY2FzdA%3D%3D

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Wp4fEi1EO741UlxPMGtaS

SoundCloud: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Wp4fEi1EO741UlxPMGtaS

RSS Feed: http://wingedwheelpodcast.libsyn.com/rss