[Palmer] SOURCE: Orioles GM Unwilling to Spend Despite Green Light From Owner
December 12, 2024
[Palmer] SOURCE: Orioles GM Unwilling to Spend Despite Green Light From Owner
38 comments
Pitcherlist breaking this? Good for them.
Is this a reputable source or more of a person/site looking for clicks?
EDIT: Thanks all!
This is pretty wild, he legit just wants to be the smartest guy in the room.
Elias might be the downfall of this upstart O’s team
Someone call Dan Duquette
If anyone needs me, I’ll be chugging bleach in the corner
I feel like this accusation would have more teeth if the Orioles rebuild wasn’t a resounding success. Their vision clearly has been effective to this point and should have earned the benefit of the doubt.
I’m also skeptical that the players available this offseason were ones they should’ve been targeting anyway. Should they have given Adames that huge contract? Soto? Is this source mad they didn’t go 8 years on a pitching contract for guys over 30?
It’s also like the first real week of free agency right now. This feels very premature. I think the real answer is this years crop of high end free agents just don’t really fit for what the Orioles are looking for. But I’m also not an O’s fan.
Elias wants the OOTP Moneyball achievement bad
Yikes. Elias has shown an incredible eye for talent both in his time with the Astros and with the Orioles, he might be the best prospect finder in baseball.
That being said the smart move, would be to supplement all of that young controllable talent with established MLB talent to create a better team. The Os with even just a handful of high level talents being signed could be a juggernaut
Seems like a hit piece with very little basis
> According to the source, Hyde attempted to push back regarding the Orioles’ shaky bullpen situation last year, arguing the team needed to get better and not necessarily younger—as a result, the team fired bench coach Fredi Gonzalez and co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller, two of Hyde’s confidants.
I’m not familiar with the author and how credibly sourced he is or isn’t, but whoever fed him this story is stretching _really_ far to try and sell this narrative.
I’m reasonably sure that the catastrophic collapse of the Orioles’ offense had more to do with the hitting coach getting axed than Brandon Hyde asking for another reliever.
Is PitcherList a legit site? Also never heard of the author, Ben Palmer. And this single source that keeps being cited — seems like someone with an axe to grind against Mike Elias. I mean, every single paragraph is a thinly veiled insult towards Elias.
And to be fair: Elias was brought it with the promise of complete independence and control. So the fact that Elias is asserting complete control over baseball operations shouldn’t really be a surprise to anyone.
This doesn’t really make much sense to me. So part of the article says he is unwilling to spend because then pressure will be on him if he did and they underperformed. Won’t pressure be on him more if they don’t spend? New ownership and Elias himself has said they have the green light to spend more under this ownership, so it’s not even like Elias would be able to shield the criticism by blaming ownership.
This reads like an anti Orioles fan fiction what the hell is this. What source did Elias piss off to get them to say these things
Orioles fans that were hoping for a SP
I do believe they are experience and a pitcher or two away from really pushing hard. Not the worst mindset but not great either.
*cries in Bob Nutting*
What’s been happening to the O’s makes very little sense to me. Elias was a huge part of our success (even if it was under Luhnow), and he’s taking a very similar route now that he has the top seat. They’ve obviously been very successful, and were previously hampered by the Angelos so it makes sense they didn’t spend beforehand. But this should be go-time for them. Bolster the rotation. Make the big signings under the new ownership. And figure out what the hell happens in the playoffs. Fans have been waiting for over four decades to win a PENNANT, you can’t let this opportunity at a potential dynasty completely slip away.
The article is pure bait but the vibe about Elias being stuck on development and not willing to be a FA spender is growing. My older clients are completely convinced he’s a fraud. I chalk half of that feeling to Baltimore fan fatalism but so far Elias as a market player seems to be off. I think he needs help with that part of his game.
I wonder if the source here was actually telling the truth, it reads kind of like someone trying to throw the GM under the bus or who has a vendetta against the FO/GM. Because it’s almost always the owner who refuses to spend money in the end. It’s just that sometimes the owner is open about it and sometimes the owner (or people close to him) put it on the GM instead
This makes sense to a point. I can agree that he has done an incredible job of evaluating and accumulating talent. I can also agree that Elias is in over his head. He has a philosophy of always drafting toolsy, closer to the bigs, position players which has gone well. But, does he not realize there are holes in the team (mostly related to pitching)? I get that he doesn’t really want to trade assets or even spend money but how will he fill out a rotation?
Elias is from the small market GM factory. They are glorified Farm managers who only make trades when there is little at stake to give up. For the Burnes trade, Joey Ortiz was blocked and no one can fix DL Hall. Orioles gave average high A prospects to the Rays for Eflin. None of these are all that bold. Cease was there for them all offseason and Padres got him. I am not a massive fan of Breslow but in less than 12 hours got a Crochet deal done. As frustrating as it sounds, Red Sox are at least in the conversation for free agents. I hear nothing from Baltimore. They had $161M payroll in 2017 under a stingy owner. Elias is just too hesitant and too rational to shop the free agent market.
This is basically the Elias Doomer perspective laid out in full. It’s plausible, and I’m inclined to agree with much of it, but I’ve never heard of this site or writer so I have my doubts.
The fact that we haven’t even been mentioned as being in the running for Burnes feels pretty bad though!
This is such a shitty article.
Isn’t it… usually the other way around?
This article kind of seems like one disgruntled (ex?) employee’s complaints being taken at face value.
You have to remember Elias was a John Angelos hire. He was brought in to completely gut payroll and clean out the “old guard” that had been employed there, except for the Angelos cohorts like Greg Bader. Go look up Elias’ introductory press conference. Nowhere in there does he ever say the word “championship.”
Elias also has his own guys. His right-hand man Sig Mejdal is a known prospect-hoarder. Together, they have taken the analytics side of things to an extreme degree, to where is it is becoming a detriment to the team.
So, I believe we are at a crossroads as a franchise. New ownership with prior-regime guys already in place. It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out. My prediction is we will have a new GM and manager this time next year after a mediocre season. Of course, we can still sign Burnes, Santander, trade for Cease, etc. But it is tough to see any of that happening as we sit here at present.
Doesn’t Baltimore need to prioritize locking up their core? If you’re not in on Soto, I understand not wanting to blow your wad on any of the rest of the FAs this year at the expense of your core. It strikes me they’ll be in play for Tucker next year.
I wouldn’t start worrying until they start signing pitchers in their late 30’s who already pitched for the orioles years ago and they’re bringing them back for some unknown reason. You know…..modeled after….the Cardinal way.
I’m skeptical that someone said this to be published but less so that it’s broadly true, as it mirrors my own feelings about the team since he took over
The amount of disdain people seemingly have for this O’s front office is amazing to me. They were literally a 100 loss team as recently as 21, are now one of the best teams in baseball with a lot of young talent and yet everyone still questions everything their front office does for like years now
I personally don’t see the issue with a GM not bending over backwards to pay a 30 year old starter $250M after 4 straight years of declining K%’s. The whole point of a GM is to not be an irrational fan
The O’s front office has been really tight lipped about most trades/free agency deals. Doesn’t really make a lot of sense that this random guy suddenly has a bunch of insight into the O’s moves but only he has ever heard about it. Why would someone trying to leak info go here instead of a bigger publication? I just don’t really buy the source more than the story, would want to see a more credible organization weigh in.
If this is even *partially* true and just being exaggerated by someone thinking they know what Elias is doing, this is very concerning. Of course, I’m proud of this farm system and really building this team up to where it is today. It’s huge for a smaller market team to be able to compete while not spending ungodly amounts of cash. But there’s a sweet spot somewhere in between an entire team being homegrown and relying solely on free agency and big signings. There’s missing pieces on this team and in this farm system that free agency needs to fill. And that’s FINE, that’s baseball.
Especially with an owner willing to spend, money needs to be spent. For decades, this team had its hands tied behind its back because of ownership, now that we have an owner willing to spend, I don’t want to have a GM retying the hands all over again.
Oh boy, it’s 🍿 time.
Did twitter user Bmorecenter write this?
Chronically online orioles fans will understand
Mike Elias gave us prospects for *Trevor Rodgers*. That’s all I need to know on whether he’s serious or not lmao
As an Orioles fan, I would much rather have the money spent giving contracts to our young stars
I mean if the owner and gm had such different views why doesn’t the owner just fire the gm…
I don’t know. This is weird. It does feel like the O’s should be spending more whatever the reason is. They really need to pony up for Burnes and prevent him from walking and potentially going to a rival. They had over 90 wins last season. Need to at least replicate that for 2025 to stay competitive in your window.
38 comments
Pitcherlist breaking this? Good for them.
Is this a reputable source or more of a person/site looking for clicks?
EDIT: Thanks all!
This is pretty wild, he legit just wants to be the smartest guy in the room.
Elias might be the downfall of this upstart O’s team
Someone call Dan Duquette
If anyone needs me, I’ll be chugging bleach in the corner
I feel like this accusation would have more teeth if the Orioles rebuild wasn’t a resounding success. Their vision clearly has been effective to this point and should have earned the benefit of the doubt.
I’m also skeptical that the players available this offseason were ones they should’ve been targeting anyway. Should they have given Adames that huge contract? Soto? Is this source mad they didn’t go 8 years on a pitching contract for guys over 30?
It’s also like the first real week of free agency right now. This feels very premature. I think the real answer is this years crop of high end free agents just don’t really fit for what the Orioles are looking for. But I’m also not an O’s fan.
Elias wants the OOTP Moneyball achievement bad
Yikes. Elias has shown an incredible eye for talent both in his time with the Astros and with the Orioles, he might be the best prospect finder in baseball.
That being said the smart move, would be to supplement all of that young controllable talent with established MLB talent to create a better team. The Os with even just a handful of high level talents being signed could be a juggernaut
Seems like a hit piece with very little basis
> According to the source, Hyde attempted to push back regarding the Orioles’ shaky bullpen situation last year, arguing the team needed to get better and not necessarily younger—as a result, the team fired bench coach Fredi Gonzalez and co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller, two of Hyde’s confidants.
I’m not familiar with the author and how credibly sourced he is or isn’t, but whoever fed him this story is stretching _really_ far to try and sell this narrative.
I’m reasonably sure that the catastrophic collapse of the Orioles’ offense had more to do with the hitting coach getting axed than Brandon Hyde asking for another reliever.
Is PitcherList a legit site? Also never heard of the author, Ben Palmer. And this single source that keeps being cited — seems like someone with an axe to grind against Mike Elias. I mean, every single paragraph is a thinly veiled insult towards Elias.
And to be fair: Elias was brought it with the promise of complete independence and control. So the fact that Elias is asserting complete control over baseball operations shouldn’t really be a surprise to anyone.
This doesn’t really make much sense to me. So part of the article says he is unwilling to spend because then pressure will be on him if he did and they underperformed. Won’t pressure be on him more if they don’t spend? New ownership and Elias himself has said they have the green light to spend more under this ownership, so it’s not even like Elias would be able to shield the criticism by blaming ownership.
This reads like an anti Orioles fan fiction what the hell is this. What source did Elias piss off to get them to say these things
Orioles fans that were hoping for a SP
I do believe they are experience and a pitcher or two away from really pushing hard. Not the worst mindset but not great either.
*cries in Bob Nutting*
What’s been happening to the O’s makes very little sense to me. Elias was a huge part of our success (even if it was under Luhnow), and he’s taking a very similar route now that he has the top seat. They’ve obviously been very successful, and were previously hampered by the Angelos so it makes sense they didn’t spend beforehand. But this should be go-time for them. Bolster the rotation. Make the big signings under the new ownership. And figure out what the hell happens in the playoffs. Fans have been waiting for over four decades to win a PENNANT, you can’t let this opportunity at a potential dynasty completely slip away.
The article is pure bait but the vibe about Elias being stuck on development and not willing to be a FA spender is growing. My older clients are completely convinced he’s a fraud. I chalk half of that feeling to Baltimore fan fatalism but so far Elias as a market player seems to be off. I think he needs help with that part of his game.
I wonder if the source here was actually telling the truth, it reads kind of like someone trying to throw the GM under the bus or who has a vendetta against the FO/GM. Because it’s almost always the owner who refuses to spend money in the end. It’s just that sometimes the owner is open about it and sometimes the owner (or people close to him) put it on the GM instead
This makes sense to a point. I can agree that he has done an incredible job of evaluating and accumulating talent. I can also agree that Elias is in over his head. He has a philosophy of always drafting toolsy, closer to the bigs, position players which has gone well. But, does he not realize there are holes in the team (mostly related to pitching)? I get that he doesn’t really want to trade assets or even spend money but how will he fill out a rotation?
Elias is from the small market GM factory. They are glorified Farm managers who only make trades when there is little at stake to give up. For the Burnes trade, Joey Ortiz was blocked and no one can fix DL Hall. Orioles gave average high A prospects to the Rays for Eflin. None of these are all that bold. Cease was there for them all offseason and Padres got him. I am not a massive fan of Breslow but in less than 12 hours got a Crochet deal done. As frustrating as it sounds, Red Sox are at least in the conversation for free agents. I hear nothing from Baltimore. They had $161M payroll in 2017 under a stingy owner. Elias is just too hesitant and too rational to shop the free agent market.
This is basically the Elias Doomer perspective laid out in full. It’s plausible, and I’m inclined to agree with much of it, but I’ve never heard of this site or writer so I have my doubts.
The fact that we haven’t even been mentioned as being in the running for Burnes feels pretty bad though!
This is such a shitty article.
Isn’t it… usually the other way around?
This article kind of seems like one disgruntled (ex?) employee’s complaints being taken at face value.
You have to remember Elias was a John Angelos hire. He was brought in to completely gut payroll and clean out the “old guard” that had been employed there, except for the Angelos cohorts like Greg Bader. Go look up Elias’ introductory press conference. Nowhere in there does he ever say the word “championship.”
Elias also has his own guys. His right-hand man Sig Mejdal is a known prospect-hoarder. Together, they have taken the analytics side of things to an extreme degree, to where is it is becoming a detriment to the team.
So, I believe we are at a crossroads as a franchise. New ownership with prior-regime guys already in place. It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out. My prediction is we will have a new GM and manager this time next year after a mediocre season. Of course, we can still sign Burnes, Santander, trade for Cease, etc. But it is tough to see any of that happening as we sit here at present.
Doesn’t Baltimore need to prioritize locking up their core? If you’re not in on Soto, I understand not wanting to blow your wad on any of the rest of the FAs this year at the expense of your core. It strikes me they’ll be in play for Tucker next year.
I wouldn’t start worrying until they start signing pitchers in their late 30’s who already pitched for the orioles years ago and they’re bringing them back for some unknown reason. You know…..modeled after….the Cardinal way.
I’m skeptical that someone said this to be published but less so that it’s broadly true, as it mirrors my own feelings about the team since he took over
The amount of disdain people seemingly have for this O’s front office is amazing to me. They were literally a 100 loss team as recently as 21, are now one of the best teams in baseball with a lot of young talent and yet everyone still questions everything their front office does for like years now
I personally don’t see the issue with a GM not bending over backwards to pay a 30 year old starter $250M after 4 straight years of declining K%’s. The whole point of a GM is to not be an irrational fan
The O’s front office has been really tight lipped about most trades/free agency deals. Doesn’t really make a lot of sense that this random guy suddenly has a bunch of insight into the O’s moves but only he has ever heard about it. Why would someone trying to leak info go here instead of a bigger publication? I just don’t really buy the source more than the story, would want to see a more credible organization weigh in.
If this is even *partially* true and just being exaggerated by someone thinking they know what Elias is doing, this is very concerning. Of course, I’m proud of this farm system and really building this team up to where it is today. It’s huge for a smaller market team to be able to compete while not spending ungodly amounts of cash. But there’s a sweet spot somewhere in between an entire team being homegrown and relying solely on free agency and big signings. There’s missing pieces on this team and in this farm system that free agency needs to fill. And that’s FINE, that’s baseball.
Especially with an owner willing to spend, money needs to be spent. For decades, this team had its hands tied behind its back because of ownership, now that we have an owner willing to spend, I don’t want to have a GM retying the hands all over again.
Oh boy, it’s 🍿 time.
Did twitter user Bmorecenter write this?
Chronically online orioles fans will understand
Mike Elias gave us prospects for *Trevor Rodgers*. That’s all I need to know on whether he’s serious or not lmao
As an Orioles fan, I would much rather have the money spent giving contracts to our young stars
I mean if the owner and gm had such different views why doesn’t the owner just fire the gm…
I don’t know. This is weird. It does feel like the O’s should be spending more whatever the reason is. They really need to pony up for Burnes and prevent him from walking and potentially going to a rival. They had over 90 wins last season. Need to at least replicate that for 2025 to stay competitive in your window.