I understand Carlos Beltran has a good resume and will still be on the ballot for more years to come. The Astros cheating scandal was swept under the rug since the Astros title was not taken away, Alex Cora went on to manage the Red Sox, AJ Hinch went on to manage the Tigers. Either gets in?

44 comments

  6. People conveniently forget where Beltran came from with the system 😆 😆 hypocrisy at it’s finest

  7. The issue is, as a Mets fan, the image of him taking a called third strike to end (losing) the World Series will forever be burned into my soul. He was paid to hit the ball. Beltran belongs in the hall of chokers.

  8. Mets fan and Beltran is one of my all time favorites, but Andruw Jones was probably the best fielder I’ve ever seen, at any position. He was a straight up menace out in center field. Insane he hit almost 350 homers in his 20’s to boot. If he had done any compiling at all in his 30s we’d be talking about a potential inner circle HOFer.

  9. The cheating thing might derail Beltran forever – Jones doesn’t have 2000 hits, or any real milestone numbers and was cooked at 31. Like alot of guys (Mattingly for example) his heights were HOF worthy, but it wasn’t enough. His last 5 years were so bad he probably hurt his legacy. Great in CF? – yup but his last 5 years he was mosty playing a corner position.

  11. Are there REALLY any passionate Carlos Beltran fans out there? He was a traveling hired gun that never made much impact in the game.

    To me, while his numbers are good – he’s entirely forgettable and doesn’t measure up to the “fame” part of the Hall of Fame.

    Andruw Jones’ 10 gold gloves are the most impressive stat in that comparison.

    Also, I’d put Keith Hernandez in ahead of either of them. Hernandez has the most Gold Gloves of any first baseman which means he’s the greatest fielding 1st baseman of all time. In my mind, if you’re the best ever at something like that – you belong in the Hall.

  13. I think they both should be in. It seemed like every time I watched sports center in the 2000s, they each had a highlight.

  16. The big thing for Jones, is he aged to hard post 30, otherwise he’d be a shoe in, probably would have 500 home runs.

    He started getting fat and out of shape though, his heart wasn’t in it anymore.

    Neither of them won a title.

  17. > Astros cheating scandal was swept under the rug

    The only ones who think this are Astros fans. It’s our duty to never let those dipshits forget.

  18. Beltran played 400 more games so the HR and RBI will obviously be in his favor.

    Andruw Jones was a generational defensive CF, which is a huge part of his resume and why he should be in the Hall of Fame.

    Beltran will very likely get dinged by the cheating scandal as well. As he should.

  19. Beltran was probably the most impacted by the Astros cheating. He lost his job with the Mets and never came back other than some color commentary work. Cora and Hinch both got a slap on the wrist.

    I feel like Jones has a higher peak and was way better on defense, but burned out faster. He was pretty much done after 2007, then played for another 5 years. Beltran had a more consistent long career in which is was really good.

    I think they both get in eventually.

  24. I don’t understand why MLB doesn’t value defense like other sports. Just based off of offensive numbers alone Andruw Jones should probably be in, but he is to MLB what Deion Sanders, Ray Lewis, LT, or Reggie White are to the NFL. One of the best defensive players of all time with HOF offensive numbers. He should have been first ballot.

  25. Poor Andruw Jones just fell off a cliff after he turned 30. Next time someone tells you this-or-that young stud is an absolute lock for the HoF, show them Andruw Jones. 64.3 fWAR through age 30; 2.7 fWAR after

  26. Both should be in. Beltran was better but Jones was an all time defender at a premium position and provided value with his bat too.

  27. Jones is probably the 2nd best premium position defensive player of my lifetime behind Ozzie Smith (yes I’m old, be quiet)

  28. Beltran pretty much stayed consistent even when he was older. Jones was elite until he was 29 or 30. Hard to make the hall when you drop off badly at 30 and still play for 5 seasons.

  29. Andruw should have been concerned with his weight if he wanted to be in. If he even managed to play 100 games a season after 2006 he would have been in without a problem.

  30. I’m going with neither.

    Beltran has the resume, but the cheating scandal should bite him.

    Jones was on track, but lacked the highly productive longevity to get him a meaningful offensive milestone.

  32. I’ve been interested in the Andruw Jones candidacy, and watched his slow climb up the ballot. What’s worth remembering, some voters are looking at total career counting numbers. Some are rating on a certain set of peak years, some are WARriors, some are award counters.

    I’ve thought about this a lot, ever since reading about Al Simmons, who, had he been hit by a bus in 1934 never played again, he would have been remembered as one of the all time greats (instead of just a Hall of Famer who took 10 ballots to get in).

    Any rate, in the interest of comparing their primes, here’s a comp between Andrew Jones and Carlos Beltran, from their ROY campaigns in their second seasons, through their eleventh seasons.

    https://stathead.com/baseball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=jones-003and&p1yrfrom=1997&p1yrto=2006&player_id2=beltra001car&p2yrfrom=1999&p2yrto=2008

    I think that’s a more fair comparison, even though it takes Beltran to age 31, and Jones only to 29.

    Jones was probably the best fielding center fielder of my life. He was one of the best ever. And he could hit well, as well. Beltran was very good, but not Andruw Jones good in the outfield. And he was an appreciably better batter, but not as overwhelming as the full carer comp shows.

    Jones belongs in. And he will probably get in, if not this year, then next.

    Beltran had a HOF career as well. He was one of the central figures in the sign stealing scandal, and lost his gig as the manager of the Mets as a result. The Astros were fined the maximum amount allowable by MLB’s rules. Hinch’s year long suspension was the longest meted out since 1910, and Luhnow’s was also one of the longest ever (though the Braves’ Coppolella was permanently banned in 2017 for stealing money from poor Latin kids).

    Beltran was mentioned in an email with Alex Cora and Alex Cintron as the people driving the culture that was initiated by Bregman/Vigoa.”

    He was central, so we’ll see how voters weigh that.

    If the writers don’t put him in, there’s no chance for the Eras committee to approve his entry.

  35. We need to start normalizing evening out plate appearances if we’re going to post comparisons involving counting stats.

  37. I know it doesn’t always come down to this, but what it should be is: Can you tell the story of those years of baseball, without bringing up the player in question. If they are so prolific, that the story of baseball at that time period cannot be told without mentioning them, then they are hall of famers. Personally, I’m a Mets fan, and I’d argue neither of them really fit that mold. But maybe I’m still mad at Beltran for staring at strike three.

  38. Beltran will be forever tarnished and never get in. The only Astro position player that has a chance is Altuve, but I don’t think he’ll get in either due to the cheating. I don’t think Jones gets in either, his numbers are good, just not HOF good in my opinion.
    Same for all the steroid users. Unfortunately, we’ll never know for sure who tested positive, only who’s name got released.

  40. Beltran will never win a player vs player competition in my book after being a complete no-show for the Giants.

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