Tom Verducci interview: Dodgers ruining baseball? Preview of MLB Network World Series special

Tom Verducci interview: Dodgers ruining baseball? Preview of MLB Network World Series special

[Music] What’s up everybody? Welcome into Dodgerheads presented by dogerblue.com part of the mediumlarge sports network. My name is Jess Beagle. Today we have a very special guest, a man that needs seemingly no introduction to Dodger fans. That would be Tom Verduchi of Fox Sports and MLB Network. also a writer for Sports Illustrated, a New York Times bestselling author, and part of an MLB special that is airing on Thursday night in which he and Bob Kostas will relive game seven of the World Series. Uh that’s a pretty good uh line of uh line of text in front of your name, Tom. It’s just so cool. Yeah. I mean, Bob’s the best. I mean, I think I love baseball. Bob might love baseball more than anybody. I love it. I love it. Well, we appreciate the time. I know you’re uh you’re just getting home from the winter meetings trying to catch your breath, I’m sure, after seven crazy games of the World Series. We’ll get to that, but I I want I need to start with the Dodgers. You like I said, you’re getting back from the the winter meetings. Um I have to ask about Edwin Diaz. He signs with the Dodgers. There’s reports that people within the Dodgers organization were surprised that this move came to be. Uh how surprised were you? Yeah, at first glance I was surprised because I thought he was someone the Mets couldn’t afford to lose. I mean, I think he’s just that good. I mean, I think he’s the best closer in baseball over the last four or five years. No offense to Josh her. Um, but um, listen, I think the Dodgers to me, this kind of cementss the idea that’s been out there that they’re the IT team right now. And I say that because the Yankees were that team in the late 90s, early 2000s. I remember Mike Mucina signing with the Yankees, right? He they already had a deep rotation and he had the Orioles, the Red Sox, the Mets, all these teams coming at him and he’s like, I want to hop aboard the train because I haven’t won a World Series yet. And where what train do you hop on? You hop on the Yankees train, right? And that’s where the Dodgers are right at right now. So I think a guy like Diaz who wants to win the World Series like everybody else sees this as the best opportunity. Plus the you know the word is just out there that this the culture the Dodgers have there besides the winning is really really good. Uh there’s nothing like uh pure reviews in Major League Baseball and I’m sure that was part of it. I don’t think the Mets wanted to lose him at all. Listen, I think they made an honest effort to try to keep him. I just think they were up against a team that has a lot of allure right now. Do you get the sense like was Edwin Diaz plan A for the Dodgers or did they kind of go in on a couple relievers earlier in the winter, miss out and then say, you know what, let’s just do it. Well, you know the game today, you want that ninth inning and beyond that as certain as possible. It’s amazing that Dodgers have done so well when you see the way they’ve and Dave Roberts managing postseason games not really knowing where the ball was going to be when the music stops in the ninth inning. Right. So, you knew they were going to be in there shopping. We heard Suarez early on. It was Hellsley. Why not shop the top of the market? I’m not sure they thought that Diaz was going to leave the Mets. And once they got in, I think here’s the thing about the Dodgers getting these guys. I know they get a lot of grief because how much money they spend, but it’s not like they’re setting tremendous records on salaries, like blowing people out of the water. When you think about even with the deferred money for Diaz, they’re paying him less on an average average annual basis than the qualifying offer for the best team in baseball and the exposure is only three years. That’s a really good deal. Too good obviously for the Dodgers to pass up. Along those lines with all the spending, you just spent the week surrounded by all people of baseball. I I spend my time on social media, which is not a great place to spend my time, Tom. I’ll admit, but on there, it’s the Dodgers are ruining baseball. Oh my gosh, I can’t believe they did it. I’m looking and saying there’s not a team in the league that couldn’t have afforded to sign Edwin Diaz to this contract. I’m not saying it would have made sense for every team in the league like the Dodgers. I’m curious at like the executive press level, are those same conversations about the Dodgers and like sort of the recklessness, are those conversations happening? No, I absolutely not. It’s a whole different conversation. I think it’s a conversation about admiration of how well they do things. And it’s not just the free agents that want to play for the Dodgers and the money they have to sign them, but their player development system identifying players. They haven’t picked at the top of the draft in forever, right? And they still find up really good talent. Uh, and you’re seeing that in the pitching staff now. I mean, they’re so loaded on the pitching staff. I would call the Dodgers tomorrow if I’m looking for, you know, a Sheen or Robleski, whoever it might be. Like, where are the innings for these guys now? So, there’s a lot of professional admiration for the Dodgers. And also, these guys have reached this level of Major League Baseball. They’re not looking for excuses. They’re trying to say, “How can we beat the Dodgers?” And you’re not going to beat them by just going straight up and trying to outspend them. That’s not going to happen. It’s a challenge for these teams to build their teams. I look at Philadelphia and they’ve taken on a challenge. Reminds me a little bit of the Red Sox, you know, trying to punch up to the Yankees there in the late 90s and they did get them in ‘ 04 where it’s like, okay, we’re going to spend all this money on guys in their late 30s, you know, the Schwarbers, the Turners, the Harpers, the Wheelers, the Nolas, but we think it’s worth it because we’ve got to put together a team that can look eye to eye at the Dodgers. So, I think it’s a challenge for teams. I don’t hear anybody saying they’re bad for baseball. Um, you mentioned all the starting pitching the Dodgers have, and you know, the list is crazy. You’ve got River Ryan coming back, Gavin Stone coming back. Who knows what they do with Robleski and Kasperius, Roki Sasaki. I mean, to your point, they’ve talked about a six-man rotation. I don’t believe a 12-man rotation is possible, but if it were, they might try it. The the belief around these parts is that at some point some of these guys might get moved in order to go get an outfielder. However, after the Edwin Diaz signing, it seemed like this resurgence of like, are we sure Kyle Tucker’s market kind of doesn’t do the same thing that Edwin Diaz’s market does, where all of a sudden everyone’s projecting four, five years for Diaz, he settles for three. Like, how likely do you think the Kyle Tucker thing is with the Dodgers? Uh, listen, I mean, they’re such smart organization. They don’t rule anything out. I don’t think the market is going to back up in this case with Tucker. I I still think he’s going to be a 400 plus million dollar guy. So, I I don’t think you’re going to get a bargain, but you know, the Dodgers have so much coming off their payroll that even with the Dia signing, there’s still room here if the Dodgers want to get a deal like that done. Now, I don’t know what Kyle Tucker’s preferences. That’s the one thing we don’t know about these players, whether it’s geography, uh, somebody you played for in the past. I I don’t know what’s really driving him, if it’s that just the money itself, but why not kick the tires on Kyle Tucker? It is a great fit there for any team obviously, but even for the Dodgers, you mentioned the need for an outfielder. Uh I wouldn’t rule them out. I wouldn’t say they’re the favorites. I happen to think Toronto is like the perfect fit for him. Uh Tampa guy. I know he’s visited the training facility there. I want, if I’m Toronto, a left-handed bat behind Vlad Guerrero Jr., I think it’s a great fit. Not saying he’s going there, but uh I I would I would think the Dodgers have to be in it just because he’s such a good player. If it’s not Tucker, there’s been rumblings of like Brendan Donovan, potentially Steven Quan’s a name that’s been kicked around. I’m curious if you heard anything this week about where the Dodgers might turn for that because they do have if they have a hole, it’s in the outfield. Yeah, I agree. I don’t think it’s an absolute need at this point. So, I think they can be really judicious about what’s out there. Maybe wait some people out. Usually, at this point, we’re not going to see a lot of deals. I know at the meetings there was a lot of talk about who was available and who they were looking at. Uh we saw some trades early, don’t get me wrong. We had 21 trades before the winter meetings. Last year there’s only 14 and there was a lot of major league players I’m talking about, not just minor league deals. So, you know, I think that market is still going to play out. I think probably a couple of free agents are going to have to drop here. I wouldn’t say it’s a a priority right now for the Dodgers, but it wouldn’t surprise me. And as you know, they love the hybrid guys. You can play on the dirt and the grass in the outfield. So, a guy like Donovan to me makes a lot of sense. Last name and then we’ll get to the special. Teascar Hernandez. Um, a beloved guy in Los Angeles a couple years ago, lost a little bit of um, love from some fans with how he played this season during the regular season. Comes back and hits a bunch of home runs in the postseason. But there still is this swirling of like, are the Dodgers listening to trades? Are they not listening to trades? Brandon Gome says, “I think he’s going to be back.” What did you hear on Tea Oscar? Yeah, I heard the same thing. I mean, as I mentioned, a lot of names in the hopper in terms of availability or just want on the other side. Teao’s name certainly came up. I never got the sense that this is a guy the Dodgers are looking to move. Obviously, they love the player. He’s such a good fit in that clubhouse. You know that. Uh he’s got the kind of slow heartbeat. We saw it in the postseason. It always seems to show up with him. Not a great defender. I get it. I think it’s been overplayed a little bit about his defensive shortcomings. I think he’s fine. I don’t think he’s the kind of guy you worry too much about defensively. Um, but the bat definitely plays. I I I think he’s a good fit in this team. He’s to me is one when I look at really good teams, I look at, you know, where’s the depth in the lineup? And the Dodgers, I think a really a deep lineup when he’s in there. Yeah. Let’s shift gears. Let’s talk about this special. As I mentioned, you and Bob Costus reliving game series of the World Series, which I have a sneaking suspicion, Tom, is going to be of interest to some of the people who watch our show getting a chance to relive this. Um, I’m curious for you. You were obviously there on site with Fox for this. Did how long did it take you to settle into the fact that the game you watched really did in fact happen? Uh, it’s a great question. Uh yeah, I I was just thinking all throughout how loud that place was in Toronto. I mean, listen, I was in Minnesota at 87 and 91. I still say those were the loudest uh venues I’ve been at, but this was pretty darn close there because the game was so compelling. There was never a moment where it just settled into, you know, this kind of nothing going on. You know, what’s going to happen next? Like the 18 game back against the Red Sox was like that. But I I just thought that this was building towards something. I had no idea. Of course, it was going to wind up with Miggy Rojas tying this game going into extra innings. I did feel like it was the Dodgers game at that point once, you know, he tied that game up with down to the last two outs. Um but yeah, it was just to me it was like a great movie that has so many twists and turns it just keeps you guessing. You know, a lot of great movies you pretty much know how it’s going to end, right? Riding off into the sunset. I must have been like four or five different points in this game where I thought, “Oh, the Blue Jays are going to win. Oh, no, the Dodgers are going to win. Oh, no, the Blue Jays are going to win.” That’s why it’s an all-time great for me. Yeah. I mean, you think about the number of plays where we’re not talking about like feet or even like yards. We’re talking about inches when it comes to Rojos making the play at second and throwing home to Will Smith whose cleat pops off. And then you’ve got Pahes’s catch, which I’ve seen the clip going around of you saying, “Hey, this is one of the greatest catches in World Series history.” Like I I look at this and we were counting down the best moments and I’m like for a franchise of the Dodgers who have Kirk Gibson’s home run, they have Freddy Freeman’s walk-off in game one last year. I don’t know how Rojos to tie the World Series game seven like facing elimination with two outs to go isn’t the greatest home run ever. And I think Pes’s catch might be the greatest catch in Dodgers franchise history. No, I think the catch is the greatest catch in World Series history. And that’s obviously no offense to the Willie Mays catch in 54, but that was game one. Yeah, you know, of a sweep for the Giants in 54. This, if he doesn’t catch the ball, Blue Jays are World Champions and Ernie Clement is the MVP of the World Series. History is completely different. And that’s one of the things I love about this show. And if you’re a Dodger fan, if you’re just a baseball fan, to me, you have to watch it because this is like the director’s cut of that game where you’re going to see plays from different angles. You’re going to hear stories that you haven’t heard before about how those plays were made and the stories behind them. For instance, on the Pahes play, we had a look from where he started. If you watched the game live, he seemed to appear out of nowhere, right? Like Superman flying in and rescuing somebody on the train tracks. I mean, he never looked at Kik Hernandez. His eyes were on the ball the entire time. But the point is, he was playing shallow when that ball was hit. He ran 121 feet to try to get that thing. And there was never a look at the wall or the track or KK. He was just locked in on it. And like five minutes before that, he is literally sitting next to me in the dugout with his hoodie on, paying about, you know, as much attention as I was about getting into the game. And all of a sudden, Doc tells Danny Leman, “Go down and tell he’s in the he’s in the game. Bases loaded, sackfly situation. You want his arm out there.” And it turns out his glove saves the World Series. There are so many of those little things and we take our time going through every one of those little things. Keep this in mind that there were three plays in this World Series that rate among the 12 most clutch plays in World Series history. The plays that most changed the outcome of a World Series. Three of those in one game. There has never been a World Series game with more than one of those plays and we had three of them. Yeah, it’s insane. U you mentioned um there’s going to be new camera angles, stuff stories that people haven’t heard. I imagine this was a unique experience for you because you weren’t watching this game on TV. So when I when I say new camera angles, they’re new to me, but almost all of the camera angles to some degree were probably new to you as you put this together. Yeah, you’re right. I mean, I have a monitor to me next to me, but it’s kind of behind me, so I’m really not watching it except if I need to see a replay. So I’m watching a game essentially from the dugout view in the course of the real time. But it was interesting to go back now where we have access to all the different angles and there’s so many to ballpark now where you can go look at something a second time. Slow things down. Uh I love looking away from the baseball. Like we have some great details on the IKF run from third base that you alluded to earlier where I think it should get him off the hook. I thought he got way too much grief for that play and how quote unquote late he was running there at home plate. And the other thing is the most clutch play or most definitive game in terms of a play in terms of win probability at it was the ground ball double play to end the game. Right? First and third, one out. And you’ve got a guy at the plate in Kirk who hits into double plays more than twice the major league average. And you’ve got a ground ball pitcher in Yamamoto on the mound who throws higher percentage of grounders than major league average. You have to start Addison Barger at first base. You have to avoid the double play. And I just spoke to Dave Roberts at the winter meetings because I’ve contended all along, you have to run to stay out of the double play because the Dodgers can’t afford to throw down to second base. If they do, that’s the tying run of the World Series on third base. If you mishandle the ball, the game is tied without the ball being hit or you have the second baseman covering second, opening up a hole for Kim, for uh Kirk. You can’t allow the tying run to score that way. So I asked Dave Roberts, I said, “We would you have thrown down?” He said, “Absolutely not. There’s no way. That’s on Toronto. They’ve got to run in that situation.” Those kind of little details about where this game turned. I’m telling you, if there’s one of those, there’s a dozen of them in this game. Yeah. I mean, that’s a great point that I haven’t heard anybody say, and I love that now we’ve got Dave Roberts quote on that. Um, it’s hilarious that we get all the way to this point and we you just mentioned Yamamoto for the first time who does like this insane thing. And that that’s what’s crazy when you think about this entire series and particularly this game. It’s like good luck picking the moment because Rohos throwing home and Will Smith’s cleat coming off like you can make a case that isn’t even in the top five plays of this game and it defined a World Series by an inch and you go from Will Smith who could have been the GOAT if the cleat comes off and the run is safe and the game is over. Instead he hits the home run later on after catching the most innings of any catcher in World Series history. I mean, this just kind of sums up how that it’s not hyperbole the way that you’re talking about this game. Oh, there there’s so many things. One of my favorites was after the game, I was talking to Mickey Roas’s wife, and she told me the great story about his favorite number being number 11, uh, his childhood number, which he gave up. So, Sasaki could get it with the Dodgers, but it’s still his favorite number in his heart. And before the game, game seven, she said, “You’re going to hit a home run today.” And he’s like, “Yeah, right. me. I haven’t hit a home run off a right-handed pitcher all year except a position player. And she said, “No, I had a dream and God showed me the number 11.” And then she tells me when Miggy comes to the plate in the ninth inning with two outs, she looks at the digital clock in right center field and it says 1111. No way. I mean, come on. Like the hair is going up on my arm. And you mentioned Yamamoto. I got to tell fans this, and again, this is my fortune to be down there by the dugout. I don’t recall a starting pitcher who like never goes into the clubhouse in the course of the game. All these guys go back in the clubhouse. They change your shirt. They get something to drink. They watch the game on TV. He is so locked in. He sits on the bench there. He’s talking with Mark Prior with the translator, of course, and Will Smith going over to the next three hitters. He’s looking at his notebook. He’s getting up and he’s going through his delivery, making every everything is synced up. I’ve never seen a pitcher who is just so locked into the course of a game. And I I think if if game seven is still going on right now, I think he’s still out there. He was that good. Well, I mean, and again, people forget he was warming up in game three, like they talk about the games he came into. He was warming up in a different game on top of it. So, and again, I was down there and I saw him walk up to Mark Brier without being able to read lips or especially the translator, which I couldn’t do. I could tell by the look on his face he wanted in that game. I I was just blown away by it and I was watching Mark Prior talking to Dave Roberts during that sequence and I’m thinking, man, that is a tough decision. That’s where the front office can’t help you. Can you throw a guy out there back on the mound who wants to pitch, but you’re into $325 million on that arm? It’s probably not the best thing in the world to do, but your other choice is to throw Mickey Rojos. What do you do? That is a blink moment for a manager. Yeah. Well, and again, 12 months ago, it was Walker Beller saying, “Hey, I’ll go take down the end of this game.” You know, like these are the decisions where you have Dave Roberts, who I still believe might go down as the greatest manager in history by the time this all said and done. He’s got the greatest win percentage the World Series, all that. But like to think of how they’ve won these last two World Series from a pitching perspective and just piecing it together and the Pah’s decision in center field. I mean, all of it. Dave Roberts like it’s like the guy needs to buy lottery tickets or something because everything comes up winners for him. I gotta tell you my favorite and you’re absolutely right by the way. I mean great decision- making all along. The trust that his players have in him that he’s going to make the right decision that’s almost as valuable. But after the game five loss going to Toronto he texts Miggy after the game and Miggy hasn’t played and hasn’t started a game in a month and he texts him and says you’re in there in game seven. And Miggy’s like texts back I got you doc. And the only reason he did it was he said he’s such a glue guy for us. He’s done everything that we we’ve asked of him this year. He’s helped out um Mookie Bets at shortstop so much with making that transition. He’s so important to us. He said, “I cannot lose this World Series without giving him a start.” Now, think about that. There’s as big as the Dodgers analytic department is, there’s nobody who told him that Miggy Rojos was the right play in game six, never mind game seven. That was strictly with his heart. I I just love that story and boy, he couldn’t have come through in a bigger spot for him. Well, and it’s full circle to the conversation we’ve had about culture because there was a story on the Dodger side that Miguel Rohos tells that it was Mukie Betts who came up to him after game five, I believe, and said, “Hey, we’re going to need you at some point.” Like Rojos was kind of down, defeated, like, “Man, I’m not even playing.” And it was Muki, the superstar, you know, four about to be four-time World Series champ who goes up to Miguel Rohos, who’s not even playing, and basically says, “Pick your head up. We’re gonna need you. Dave texts him. He gets in the game. He hits the home run. I mean, this is this is the beauty of baseball, right, Tom? Like, this these stories, if Hollywood wrote these, you wouldn’t believe them. No, you’re absolutely right. It is. As as much as we love the numbers of the game today, and I love them as much as anybody and you know, the back of the baseball cards and all that stuff. Those are my favorite stories. Like, you just reminded me of Jason Hayward when you talked about Mookie Betts, uh, you know, picking up a teammate or keeping his teammate involved when he’s not even playing. In this case, it was Jason Hayward back in 16 with the Cubs, who had been benched actually a couple times against right-handed pitchers in that series, was not having a good postseason at all. And he’s the one that pulled the team together, of course, during that famous 17-minute rain delay in game seven and 16 and just picked everybody up. And I was down there again in the dugout and I thought they were done. And when they came back after that meeting, the rain delay was over. I’m telling you, it was like a high school football team taking the field on a Friday night. completely different vibe. So those kind of stories, I mean, obviously it’s what I do, right? I’m a storyteller and writer. I love narratives. I love that stuff. Yeah. Well, hey, the the baseball gods have given you plenty to write about from this one. So, uh, folks, again, Thursday, December 11th at 700 p.m. Eastern, MLB Network, a special Bob Kostas, Tom Verduchi retelling, reliving of game seven of the World Series. Do not miss it. Tom, thank you for your time tonight. uh get a little bit of rest after all this winter meeting stuff before spring training comes around the corner. Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. Really enjoyed it. Absolutely. Well, thanks everybody for watching. Again, this is Dodgerheads presented by dogerblue.com. Enjoy the rest of your day everyone. As always, go Dodgers.

“DodgerHeads” host Jeff Spiegel interviewed Tom Verducci for reaction to the Los Angeles Dodgers signing Edwin Díaz and a preview of the MLB Network World Series special airing at 4 p.m. PT on Thursday, Dec. 11.
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