I have been thinking about a couple things. I like Mathurin, I don't want to see him go. I really believe, on balance, that he wants to stay in Indy. My mind flashes back to locker room interview he did, after Game Four ECF against the Knicks.
He was discussing an injured (but returning) Nesmith and stepping into big shoes. He was almost crying when talk brushed on Nesmith's heroic impact against the Knicks and how the team mentality must prevail, even coming off the bench."You play in this world, it's about the whole team. It's not about personal stuff, I think anybody could care less about that. A ring, that's something. A lot of people play a lot of years in the NBA and don't get that. When you have a ring, not many people can tell you anything."
Bottom line, Math had found a band of brothers and really wanted to step up for the team and take them to the highest possible level. Which he did.
Could we develop a system where we rotate Nembhard, Nesmith, and Mathurin as starters around Haliburton? This would take a lot of engineering, but we have a whole half of a season to try that out. Basically, this would add flexibility and depth to our team. We could throw the best possible lineup for the opponent on the floor each game.
We would also comfortably adapt to any scenario the opposition the throws out. I know the Pacers' are a metrics friendly team and real-time stats, plus coach feel, would tell us exactly what players we need on the floor. In the process, we could preserve thumbs, backs, and knees through a grueling season of contention.
And we could have our three wing players in the secondary at key times, mentoring our draft pick and hopefully getting him to the point where he can have positive impact in the postseason. I mean, we did it, the incorrigible Walker looked capable in flashes in the playoffs.
I guess a key question is salary. Can we convince Math to take a haircut from what he probably justifiably feels he is actually worth? Nesmith set the bar by re-upping for $20 million, when he could have waited and probably gotten close to $28 million on the open market (if healthy after a skill and responsibility expanding tank season).
I figure Math will want $22-24 million minimum and he probably deserves it. But then everyone expected Myles to be happy with the same ballpark, and he threw his lego set across the room and said "naw."
Practicing such a "starterless" system this season might require Kam Jones or Shep taking the PG role and seeing how Neshard and Math, if he comes back, function around a stand-in Haliburton fulcrum. Can they all share the ball much better and selflessly?
Now fools like Lakers commentators are throwing out silly ideas such as Mathurin and Nesmith for Austin Reaves. That's not even possible, as AA can't be traded until April. Anyway, any sane player wants to stay on a team credibly gearing up for a big next season alongside Siakam and Tyrese.
Starterless does not mean STARterless.
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What an odd photo choice
Mathurin and Nesmith for Reaves isn’t a crazy trade. Might not fit our team, but Reaves is really good and probably worth more than those two in a vacuum.
Starterless? I think you’re simply asking if they can go into 2026-27 with the same 2/3 roster rotation as the 2024-25 season. Mathurin as 6th man getting starter-like minutes, leading the 2nd unit in points, rebounds, etc.
Growing salaries make that difficult along with whether Mathurin would be happy remaining as 6th man or if he wants to start somewhere.
When it comes to Bennedict Mathurin I like him, but I’m not a huge fan by any means. I view him as a legit 6th man, the reasons I feel this way are because he scores in flurries, not on a consistent quarter to quarter basis, his defense is average at best, and his fot with Haliburton is questionable.
If we can get him at around $20mil annually, in a role that plays to his strengths as a bench scorer, who if hot can 100% close games for us, I’d be delighted. If indications are he is chasing closer to $30mil, I’m looking to make a deal before the deadline.
Of all the players mentioned, I believe Mathurin would be least cool with coming off the bench. I believe Mathurin wants to start. I also like Benn and believe he wants to win and play for a good team (and function as a part of that team).
I think Nemby and Nesmith pair too well with Haliburton for them to not start. But maybe we draft Dybantsa and he starts over Nesmith. Who knows.
I think I’d like us to move Mathurin for a center. I love having a “go get us a bucket” guy in Mathurin with Siakam aging too. I dunno. I think signing and trading Mathurin (or possibly TJ) for a starting center makes the most sense.
Regardless I don’t think we make a move until the offseason. Too much up in the air with the ping pong balls theoretically possibly falling in our favor. Makes me nervous for some dumb team to overpay Mathurin but hopefully everyone is sufficiently scared of the second apron to do that now.
Healthy Mathurin finally has clearly separated himself from Sheppard and Walker in a situation of who gets minutes off the bench at the 2/3. Due to our system, we’re going to play a lot of dudes in the regular season, but in competitive games we’ve really got 5 legit dudes at the 1-3 spots – 144 minutes to go around (Haliburton, Nembhard, Nesmith, Mathurin and TJ). That’s an average of 29 minutes per player. TJ naturally plays only about 16 mpg so that’s an extra 13 to spread around. I say all that basically to say: who gives a shit if you are starting or coming off the bench if you are playing ~32 minutes each night on a consistent basis. For Mathurin to re-sign (and come off the bench) there will have to be some type of agreement that Benn’s not getting yanked and yo-yo’d around with his minutes, though. Which you shouldn’t do anyway with a dude you’re committing $20+ million/year for anyway.
All four players were healthy last year and Rick very clearly defined their roles and I think his reasoning was true and obvious.
The Haliburton Pacers had a winning formula and it involved Andrew Nembhard starting next to Tyrese, both because Nembhard can cover the opposing team’s primary backcourt threat/pressure the ball, and because he can act as a second point guard when teams are hyperfocused on Tyrese.
Benn is ill-equipped to do either of those things. And Benn can’t play the 3/cover SFs, and then the Pacers’ defense becomes too compromised with Benn and Tyrese on the floor together against starters. It becomes too easy to target our weakest links, much like the Knicks couldn’t beat us with both KAT and Brunson on the floor defensively against our starters. Benn has improved a bit defensively but there is an ocean between his defense and Nembhard’s.
This is why last year when all four were healthy, their roles were what they were.
Reality is, Benn works best for the Pacers as a scoring punch off the bench who gets more minutes when he’s playing well.
If Benn earns a salary that is too steep of a price for the Pacers to pay for a scoring threat off the bench, or if he views himself as a starter and doesn’t want to accept that role during his second contract, they should trade him.
Alternative option, Pacers find a more dynamic SF in the draft this year and Aaron becomes expendable so that they can afford Benn off the bench.
I think most Pacers fans root for Benn, myself included, but at the end of the day, the forcing of a square peg into a round hole has to stop at some point.
TBF, Hali, Nembhard, Nesmith, and now Math are all injury prone to a degree, so Math will be filling in starting rather frequently anyway if he stayed.
Starterless… read it as SHIRTLESS lol
I like the thought process here. Benn, as a human being, appears hard to read sometimes but there are instances like the interview above, the post after Ty’s surgery, the appearance in Drew’s offseason video…that may highlight what is a close bond between him and the current group & staff. Rick has been very supportive of Benn in all press conferences this year, most importantly acknowledging the mountain to climb in terms of adapting from previous role to needed role.
Ultimately, it depends on what Benn wants for his coming few years. There isn’t a better option of accelerating market value than he will get as part of next year’s offense, and a continuation of him being used as an on-ball defender this year and next. If he wants to win games and prove growth in meaningful moments, him and his agent might as well find a way to get paid within team’s offered range (push on the owners, though…truly test the stigma of being too cheap to be competitive) with intention of new deal or becoming FA for his prime.
IMO – Myles’ situation was only comparable in that everyone acknowledged money would be a test. Other than that, it was apparent he felt a type of way to bet on himself after his prime years’ performance…not to mention the rumors and such along the way. Whether or not he thought how green the grass was without Ty, or knew to take the bag now…it is what it is.
Marhurin has been showing his true colors lately. Not interested in becoming a solid defender is his glaring weakness. Benn has to realize there are tons of guys in the nba that can score 20+ pts on a given night and he’s not special or privileged because he can. He’s basically turning himself into a Keon Ellis type player. Come in and drop 15 quick points, but cant be counted on to make the right play when it matters most.
The issue with Mathurin continues to be that he does his best work with the ball in his hands as a scorer. His playstyle is better in an iso-heavy style like the Heat and Grizzlies currently run. He can pass a little, but if he’s not going to be the primary scorer, he’s best used as a guy that catches a kick-out and drives himself to score or pass. He’s not a guy that’s going to cut or move a lot without the ball on offense, at least not unless it’s a defined part of the system. I don’t think his BBall IQ is high enough to play “random” offense in the way we want to play. That’s a hateful way to say that on offense, he’s a system guy, just not our system.
On defense, he doesn’t put in consistent effort and again, the lack of Ball IQ shows when he navigates screens or has to chase someone around the court. He’s often defensively out of position when his man catches the ball, which leads to him getting burned on the drive. You can only get away with that as a starter if you are an historically good scorer, which he isn’t, or if the rest of your team is very solid defensively, which we aren’t. As it sits, Mathurin and Haliburton on the floor together is not winning basketball, as both need the ball in their hands to impact the game, and neither is an impact player on the other end.
In summary, Mathurin could maybe be a starter for the Heat, Grizzlies, or Magic (if they didn’t have Bane). For us, he will never start as long as Tyrese and/or Rick are with the team. Unless he suddenly just gets smarter about how he defends and moves on offense.
I love Mathurin so much , miss him already he’s a true fighter and has been fighting for us this season through injuries 😭
Much could depend on the Draft and trades regarding whether Mathurin remains in Indiana. Mathurin could depart for reasons other than agreeing on a dollar amount on a contract. The Pacers really need to upgrade the center position. It’s possible they could draft Boozer and try him at C or draft Quaintance if we don’t get a top 5. The Pacers could also trade Mathurin and/ or the draft pick for a high quality center.
Another team is going to want something substantial to surrender a promising young center, and Mathurin and that draft pick are among the most attractive assets that they might be willing to give up.