They talked through the Blazers today on the Game THeory podcast- thought I'd share since I think Vecenie is one of the best talent evaluators who isn't working for a team. I'm gonna do my best to paraphrase
Deni: They compare him to Jalen Brown. An elite player who ideally is your 2nd best guy. Some on this sub will probably not like that, but you have to remember there's usually 5-7 true #1 options in the league. Keep in mind Dame was never better than the back of the top 10.
Clingan: Sam sees him as a foundational big. He think he's the 2nd best player of the core- very advanced defensively, crazy rebounder, does all the little things. Going to have to see the 3 point shooting for multiple years to trust it, cite how bad some of his misses are.
Toumani: Less discussion here as everyone pretty much agrees he's a good starting wing.
Shaedon: Thinks his contract means it's OK if he ends up as a 6th man. Remains skeptical whether he's a starter. Defense drives him insane. Decision making has been OK on offense during this stretch. They question he has the ability to play the way he clearly wants to play.
Scoot: Sam thinks he's the most important guy on the roster as far as changing our ceiling. Frontcourt is set, major questions about the backcourt.
They talk about next steps at the end. Sam thinks we're one guy short, and it's imperative that we get off one of Jrue/Grant's contracts in order to be able to renegotiate Deni's deal early ala JJJ. They think we should be aggressive trying to get off Grant's deal before the next season. Believe the Blazers have done a great job with player evaluation, have a lot of good basketball players that you can keep around. Except for the Yang pick, which they think was totally insane lol. Overall a lot of respect for the org.
20 comments
Sam is probably my favorite podcaster when it comes to talking ball. He can be stuck to his draft profiles a bit too long, but he gets things right way more than wrong. So to hear him talk about Deni and Clingan in such high regard is pretty awesome from a futures perspective.
I have no qualms with calling Deni a “Jalen Brown”-esque player right now. He’s in the middle of his true breakout season and he’s 25, there’s a lot more to go data-wise before we can say he’s firmly a 2 or a 1 on a championship team.
But I will say I think without something unforseen like a crazy drop in play over the next 2-3 years Deni firmly has a “2nd best player on a contender” floor.
And credit where its due, Sam hated the Yang pick and so far everything he said about Hansen has been true. About his defense making him practically unplayable currently and his offensive rim touch not good enough to keep him on the floor. Sam is one of the best draft evaluators in the business.
Hard to disagree with a lot of this, pretty spot on
Jalen Brown is a legitimate MPV candidate. Would you rather see him as the 2nd best guy? Sure if you lucky enough to get an even better player, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a great number one.
The take on Deni is flawed. It seems kind of obvious now that Jalen Brown is a number one option/mvp candidate. He just happens to be on a team with Jayson Tatum.
Agreed, the biggest weights on the front office’s shoulders are Jrue and Jerami’s contracts. Moving off of at least one is imperative but will likely cost draft capital to accomplish.
Two things that they talk about which I often disagree with this sub on
1) Shaedon. I think the biggest disconnect is the way Blazers fans view Sharpe versus the way guys like Vecenie does. This sub seems to feel he’s ascended. Vecenie sees baby steps from a very talented guy whose process really really frustrates him. He hates his defense(despite the steals), thinks he misses the easy pass constantly, and has the shot diet of a star without the game to back it up. Says his elite physical abilities and great touch have allowed him to be successful at the rim, but he lacks the craft to draw fouls. Trusts that he will be a competent shooter going forward, but questions whether his shot will ever be good enough to take the number of difficult midrange jumpers he takes.
2) Grant and Jrue’s contract. It’s often repeated on this sub that their contracts don’t matter because they’ll be up when we have to re-sign our guys, and that cap space doesn’t matter because we will never sign a free agent anyway. Renegotiating Deni’s deal is a clear example to the contrary.
Think his takes on Deni and Scoot are spot on. Deni’s best and highest contributing role to winning is one where he’s able to attack off of second actions after another player has already forced defenses into rotation and he can get a head of steam; it’s why he and Shae play off of each very well. Deni’s got the on-ball juice to flow in between secondary and primary initiator incredibly well as seen by this season, but if we can get him easier paths to the rim because defenses have already been forced to collapse or shift, then his strengths get accentuated and his weaknesses are less relevant.
I desperately want Shae to be better than their assessment of him, but he still makes things too hard on himself too frequently. He’s been a lot better in this recent stretch about passing out and resetting if he gets stopped on his way to the rim instead of taking long contested 2’s, but it needs to happen almost every time instead of the 50/50 split he’s at now. His handle obviously still needs improving, but it’s also a bit surprising that his first step isn’t better considering his insane athleticism. There’s a lot of drives he tries where he just gets stopped right after the three-point line, and his handle isn’t good enough yet for him to be able to play with defenders in the paint like the best offensive engines can. Love Sam and his takes, and its an incredibly exciting time to be a Blazers fan!
By that logic, Tatum has also not proven he could contend for a title without JB. It cuts both ways. And for what it’s worth, JB was the Celtics best player in the finals in ‘24. I’m just saying, it’s possible the Celtics have two number 1 option-level talents.
Obviously only one can be the actual number one. In the case of Deni, he is in my opinion a number one option or on his way to proving that. To me Shaedon strikes me as more of an ideal number two option, if he can put it all together, 6th man if not.
I just finished listening to this segment too. I found it a little annoying at the start that they mentioned all the opposing teams’ injuries during the Blazers recent run, and none of ours.
I thought the Deni/JB comp was high praise and “he’s great but unlikely to be a top-5 guy” was really positive and overall fair.
The Clingan eval surprised me. As a fanbase see his limitations stand out offensively, and defensively I feel like he is very, very good as a drop big but it’s highly matchup dependent. But his conditioning improvement this year and overall health has been critical to the team success with a thin front line.
Sam is a little hard on Shae, but he isn’t the heady, high-efficiency player Sam likes and I understand the hesitation. I think he’s made marginal improvements nearly across the board, but “the leap” still hasn’t happened. I wouldn’t mind if he became a super-6th man long term.
The Yang pick is hard to evaluate this year. Getting another 1RP in the deal was good asset management, but he looks so far away from being ready. I also didn’t like drafting centers back-to-back who both need to play drop coverage, even if it they both pan out.
Last, I really hope we can keep Cissoko and Love. Sidy’s impressed me all year and Caleb has provided some crucial offense and holds up better in defense than I expected. They’ve earned NBA deals.
You mean he doesn’t think Yang Hansen was a good use of assets and is a monstrosity of a decision? Wild.
That, along with all other takes, are spot on.
I agree with basically all of it, Scoot taking off would be a watch out NBA moment. All of that, except the “Shaedon is a 6th man” comment. Been listening to Marang too much or something? What’s with the sudden influx of a 22 year old who has improved every year he’s been in the NBA as having a ceiling of a 6th man ? Even his defense is no longer as bad as the narratives claim.
Is it because if you aren’t a true legit superstar, you are suddenly only a 6th man? I really don’t get it.
Nice to hear a national media member highlighting our team with some nice things to say.
I did find it funny that he complimented our talent evaluation, lists 5 guys that showcase our ability to do that and then says Hansen was a bad pick even though he was evaluated by the same group that he just complimented their ability to evaluate talent.
IDK, Clingan is great but definitely not the 2nd best player of the core he’s just a very solid big man. His take on Shaedon is way off, in terms of raw talent he’s one of the most talented players in the league he just needs to get better at getting to his spots and taking good looks. When you don’t understand the nuances of his game it’s easy to group him in the Jalen Green category but he’s far more talented and isn’t a shot chucker either. There’s a reason this guy isn’t working for any organization, if the 2nd best player of this core is Clingan then our future is dogshit, I guarantee he’s a guy who thought we’d be a lottery team before the season. Very surface level evaluation
Jaylen brown is an mvp candidate. If this is a diss, I missed the diss
I consider Jaylen Brown an “MVP Ballot candidate” rather than an “MVP candidate” if that distinction makes any sense. An “MVP Ballot candidate” caliber of player is good enough to be a number one option on a playoff team and end up on the MVP Awards Voting list, but not quite good enough to receive first place votes or to realistically win the award.
Peak Dame belongs in this tier, [finishing as high as 4th](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2018.html) in 17-18 but never truly belonging in the conversation for best player in the league. Others I’d put in that strata are Brunson, peak PG13, AD, Booker, and Mitchell. The difficult reality with all those guys is that a team built around them as the best player needs an exceptional supporting cast and a good deal of luck to win a title.
True MVP candidates (e.g. Bron, Curry, Jokic, Giannis, SGA) are different beasts, and can lead an imperfect supporting cast to a title when at their peaks. Tatum was flirting with this tier of player before getting hurt—there’s no doubt Tatum is a cut above Brown even considering how great this season has been for JB. When both are healthy, Jaylen takes the passenger seat and, though he won’t end up on the MVP ballot, he’s much more valuable to a true title contender in that role.
All that said, I think it’s a fair (and very complimentary) comp for Deni. If he’s truly that level of player then he can be our number one option on a fun team that’s better than some Chicago Bulls type play-in tournament darling that’s stuck on a treadmill of mediocrity. Frankly, I think it would put us in a really similar spot as where we were with Dame during his prime: consistent playoff appearances, winning some fun playoff series some years, but no real threat to win a ring.
This exact view of Sharpe is what I feel most of the non delusional fans have – and it’s extremely normal and realistic. But some blazer fans seem to think it’s hating on Sharpe for being real about his decision making and defense.
Being honest and aware of Sharpe’s flaws makes you a “Sharpe Hater” though I guess that’s why
I’ve been telling everyone that Deni can be like in a duo like Tatum and Brown.
But I just think that Brown was a 1b, not a second option( and he’s proving it this year), but it’s the same difference, LFG.
Have to throw it all out the window because they refuse to acknowledge that POR, like every other fucking team in the league, has the same fucking Bird rights to players.
Good share. Thanks.
My biggest takeaway is how excited I am for Scoots impact on the team. The has the potential to raise our floor significantly. If he can match Love’s level of play, it adds another ball handler and shooter. That helps us get into more half court actions, better shot selection, and turnovers go down, which helps our defense.
Vecenie and Brice are huge Blazers fans. They’ve pretty much adopted the Blazers as their team. They went nuts for the Deni deal, from what I remember. Said he’s on one of the best deals in the league and couldn’t believe Washington would trade him.
With the Deni note, I don’t know why anybody would be mad. He’s right. Deni is an amazing #2 option. If he’s your #1, you aren’t winning a title unless you have 2 other guys at the same exact level.
Agree on the Yang pick. Looking back, what an awful pick that was. It’d be great to have Coward right now instead of him.