Kenley Jansen makes an interesting powerlifting comparison to explain why the pitch clock is causing elbow injury outbreak

23 comments

1. I’m still not buying this, many a pitchers have been quick pitchers without issues. Just thinking about Buehrle and Darvish.

   Also, power lifter Bartolo Colon? I feel the physique required for each is different. I know nothing about lifting though, TJ seems to be more reliant on ligaments, where I’d assume power lifting is based on muscle.

2. Was watching the Yankees game last night and they were talking about how the demand for pitchers in the off season might have an effect. Pitchers aren’t getting the rest they need. The newer exercises they are doing like throwing weighted balls. They’re just throwing a lot more in the off season.

   Overall there’s probably no one cause for this issue.

3. Of course there isn’t actually a pitching epidemic and baseball has always had seasons where these kinds of players went down early.

   https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2888826

4. lol Kenley Jansen complaining about the pitch clock is like a drunk driver complaining about DWI laws

5. Oh yeah let’s just ignore the fact that pitchers at a young age are pitching year round now at max effort or everyone trying to hit max velocity

6. It’s throwing a ball faster than 75 by the time you’re 13, faster than 80 by 15 and faster than 90 by 18-19. Those are all things that didn’t happen except in ridiculously freakish individual cases until the 90s.

   Players now are basically playing baseball the D&D version and if they consider bea pitcher they just put max points on velocity, because it gives them the best chance of baseline success, with failure to reach the majors as the line of failure, it doesn’t matter if its because you are barely not good enough, or you need four more surgeries to be able hig your kids with both arms.

   Young pitchers are just selling out for getting in the door, and have nothing left in their bodies to sustain themselves once there. And this becomes a self fulfilling proficy of every pitcher is drafted because they have + or ++ velo.

   Pitchers worked faster than the current pitch clock for decades without issues. The problem is velocity, and the age of the players as they start throwing faster. And it will destroy the overall value of individual pitchers and baseball in general if not remedied.

   The players and union on this point are out of their minds. Players were abusing the privilege of playing at their own pace, coaches and franchises were encouraging it so baseball had to fix it.

   I don’t know what the solution is to the other one. Because hard, fast rules are not the solution, nor are forcing players to not perform their best because there is some artificial barrier that they aren’t supposed to cross. You also need to have players just learn to pitch.

   It’s easy to throw fast, not everyone can, but there isn’t much skill to it. Not quite as easy to throw fast and accurately. But the accuracy is more valuable than the speed to a certain point, but we are finding that at a certain point, the velocity is simply more powerful as long as accuracy is ~close.

7. Could it be that guys are throwing not natural to what is comfortable? Everyone has a different motion which is comfortable to them but they now ignore this and do what ever generates the most power?

8. I’m not sure what the MLBPA stance on the electronic strike zone is, but my googling seems like they have been silent.

   Ironically that’s, in my opinion the biggest contributor. As usual a union was short sided and didn’t realize this.

   Greg Maddux can’t exist today because the umpire can’t reward the off the black pitch to a pitcher that can hit it consistently.

   The only way to get outs becomes velocity and changes in velocity.

   Easiest way to create velocity differences is change the high end. Dual benefit of increases the difference between fastball and off speed and makes fastball harder to hit.

   This gets rewarded in the majors. Colleges and academies reinforce it.

   Edit: and the pitch clock argument is comical. MLB didn’t eliminate time in the Solar day. They just moved the rest from an extra second between pitches to after the game until the next start bruh!

   If the union said that bullshit to me, then I would say “then why aren’t you pushing for not allowing pitches to toss between innings or get loose during a rain delay, or demanding they rest 26 seconds between the 8 pitches when they enter the game it’s about rest between pitches right?” Or is it about “do the opposite of what I say so you look powerful”

9. John Smoltz already said what the problem is, and I believe him.

   https://youtu.be/tEeyAWo_yYU?si=QJITMuYSXAdawbnZ

10. Pitchers today are stronger and throw harder. Spin rate causes a lot of torque in the shoulder.

11. The pitch clock is dumb. Takes the best part of the game. The other game along side baseball and renders it mute. Cut one commercial every half inning break. And instruct the umps to keep it moving. Allowing them to hand out penalties if there’s stalling for a reliever. Ect. But kill the clock for the love of the game

12. He’s absolutely right

13. The real question is why is everyone in Mockingbird media choosing to focus on this topic now when pitcher’s injury rates have been sky rocketing the past 15 years? Hopefully there are no lame solutions on the horizon. (e.g. “Turns out, with the demand of pitching programs, Starters should only be expected to throw 40 pitches every fifth day.”)

14. Funny how that “outbreak” started almost a decade before the pitch clock was implemented. Any comment on that simple fact, Mr All Star Closer?

15. Seeing a lot of people disagreeing here, but none actually addressing what is obviously and undeniably a reasonable argument worth considering. What he said, for those who aren’t bizarrely defensive about the topic:

    > “You can tell any bodybuilder when they’re doing their lifting, cut their two-minute break by 30 seconds. What do you think is going to happen?” Jansen asked. “If you’re going to deadlift or do whatever, and you got to do five, six reps, and then instead of taking a minute-thirty break, or even two, and then do it in 18 seconds, what do you think is going to happen? … Their back’s going to blow, right?”

    > “Pitchers can not step off and take a deep breath. You’re not giving your body a chance to recover. I’m not saying be out there 30 seconds between every pitch. I’m not saying to eliminate the pitch clock, either. But why so rushed?” he said.

16. That’s precisely the kind of comparison that makes perfect sense until you think about it

17. If it’s solely the pitch clock why weren’t pitchers destroying their elbows at the same rate through the first 100 years of baseball when pitchers routinely throwing every 15 seconds?

    Edit:Spelling

18. Saying this as a Red Sox fan. Kenley Janson is a whiney bitch.

19. Its velocity. Beginning, middle, and end of the discussion.

    Anyone who says otherwise needs to bash their skull into a brick wall at 90 mph. Maybe then you’ll find sense you didn’t know you had.

    It’s so blatantly obvious.

20. Dallas braden did the same thing. It’s a very small part of the issue. At the big league level, not using a gripping agent is much more of the culprit

21. For a century games lasted roughly 2 hours. For much of that time many pitchers threw 20-30-35 complete games and 250 innings consistently. They did not, however throw 100+ mph. They also went months in the off season without throwing at all to better heal up. It aint the pitch clock.

22. Didn’t they pilot the pitch clock in the minors for a few years? I woulda thought they would monitor injuries as a data point.

23. Yeah, I remember the good ol days, before the pitch clock, you never saw a pitcher with a hurt elbow.